Tuesday, December 15, 2015

Point ... Counter-Point ...

Excerpt ~ Letter to Editor, Greece Post, 12/10/15

 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Communicate tax facts better!

Finance Director Paul Holahan’s recent letter to the editor, “2016 town budget...” (GP 12/10) is a welcome addition to public discussion.  I hope he continues.

Readers may recall another recent essay by Supervisor Bill Reilich and Greece Town Board (GP 11/12).  Their headline said, “The 2016 proposed budget – No tax increase for residents”.

To many, this sounds good – maybe too good, so what does it mean?

Does it mean all residents... including renters?  Arguably all [nearly all] adult residents pay property taxes directly or indirectly.

Does it mean all residents regardless of increasing taxable valuation/assessment e.g. re-assessments or declining exemptions etc?

Does it mean NO businesses, even though they pass the cost of higher taxes on to customers?

What were the numbers when the Board proofed the statement before publishing their essay?

The budget says taxes for 2016 (total all tax bills, $37.7 million) will exceed 2015.  Conversely, the Board essay says, “...No tax increase for residents”!  So, who pays the tax increase?

Director Holahan says it’s development in the town.  Okay, what is the assessment growth in residential, business, industrial etc?  How well is COMIDA working?

While the budget alone may add up, the budget and the essay don’t square one-to-the-other!

George Hubbard
Greece Resident
227-2503

PS: Figures taken from “ONE PAGE SUMMARY OF THE TOWN’S 2016 BUDGET”.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

Holihan and the other town mis-leaders really do think we are stupid.
The tax levy is the amount of tax raised by the town.
Period. Stop.
If more money is coming in via the levy, regardless of whether it came from new development or higher assessments, TAXES HAVE INCREASED.
Holding the RATE flat only serves to obfuscate the actual, real increase in taxes and give government liars something to point to and say "aren't I a great leader?"
The argument hasn't been that RATES WENT UP, because they obviously didn't.
The argument is that if your RATES DIDN'T GO DOWN when your overall town-wide valuation went up, YOU HAVE INCREASED TAXES.
And that's a fact.
How about holding the TAX LEVY FLAT, genius?




SCATS said...

To 10:29PM ~~ Sadly, the words "down" & "flat" aren't understood by 2/3rds of the electeds. They erroneously believe that anything that ascends MUST be for the better.

Anonymous said...

12/15/15 @ 10:29 hit the nail on the head. While George Hubbard continues to go back and forth with all his numbers, the simple fact is when the town raises your assessment your taxes go up! Simple as that. The town leaders can lie all they want and say they did not raise taxes but when you get your assessment raised you will pay through the nose. The school district plays the same game. One year my assessment went up so much my school taxes went up by $500 in one year. Yet, the school district maintained they were going to increase taxes by less than 1 percent. The joke is on all the folks who believe all the crap that comes out of Vince Tofany Dr.

So, George, please don't post anymore numbers except how much the town raised the tax levy. It is that simple!

george hubbard said...

To: 10:29 Thanks for posting.

Comparing figures below shows TAXES go up in 2016 (Ln3, Col E).

SUMMARY: GREECE TOWN BBUDGET TOTALS:

____A______B________C__________D________E
_________APPR0PRIATION
__________(________LESS: ESTI REVENUES
__________(_________(_________LESS: APP FUND BAL
___YR_____(_________(__________(______TAXES/LEVY

1. 2015__$56.66M___$16.41M___$2.86M___$37.395M

2. 2016__$56.66M*__$18.92M___$0.00M___$37.74M


3. Chg___$_0.0______+2.51M___+2.86M____+0.34M_

* INCL $0.60M EMPLOYEE CONTRIBUTION TO INSURANCE

Budgets are a plan/est looking forward.
APPROPRIATION= Planned/estimated spending.

Comments/questions invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

10:29 Go, go, go!

You’ve got it right.

Tax LEVY measures taxes paid/collected, not tax RATE.

LEVY is up $340,000. Somebody has to pay it!

And businesses don’t pay taxes... they pass their TAXES on to customers like all other costs!

SCATS said...

To 11:58AM ~~ AND seniors pay substantially reduced taxes to ensure the Supervisor gets re-elected ;)

george hubbard said...

To: SCATS

PLEASE REPOST ASAP TO CORRECT ERROR/omission.
Ln#3, Col D “-$2.86M” corrected below.
Ln#2, Col C asterisk applies also.
My apologies!

Corrected SUMMARY: GREECE TOWN BUDGET:

____A______B________C___________D_________E
_________APPR0PRIATION
__________'_______LESS: ESTI REVENUES
__________'________'_________LESS: APPR FUND BAL
___YR_____'________'__________'______TAXES/LEVY

1. 2015__$56.66M___$16.41M___$2.86M___$37.395M

2. 2016__$56.66M*__$18.92M*__$0.00M___$37.74M


3. Chg___$_0.00_____+2.51M___-2.86M____+0.34M_

* includes $0.600M employee contribution to insurance
for both APPROPRIATION and REVENUE columns.

Budgets are a plan/est looking forward.
APPROPRIATION= Planned/estimated spending.

Comments/questions invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

HEY
Auggie sent me a birthday card on my 65th birthday.
He even paid for the stamp from his slush fund.

No Democrat ever was that nice.

Auggie is The Man!

george hubbard said...

To: 7:08am Thanks for posting.

1. Sorry to hear about your horror story with taxes.

2. You say: “So, George, please don't post anymore numbers except how much the town raised the tax levy. It is that simple!”

2a. Sorry to hear number posts offend you.

2b. One reason for posting more than one number is to show variables in BUDGET that cause increase in TAX LEVY.

2c. So if so simple, can I ask, what causes 2016 TAX LEVY to increase?

2c. Can we agree, no number for 2016 ASSESSMENTS in 2016 BUDGET.

Questions/comments invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

SCATS

If town board eliminated 29 positions (5%) in 2016 budget, why didn’t budget go down 5% or at least 3% or 4%? Where is money going?

Anonymous said...

SCATS

If taxes go up $340,000 in budget and town says NO TAX increase for residents, then who pays?
I pay rent. Will my rent go up?

Anonymous said...

To: Geo H. 1:06pm

You show Ln#3 Col C REVENUE increase +$2.5M. Where do revenue increases come from?

Anonymous said...


Apparently, a lot of black magic happens behind the curtain. Does anyone think a town representative would ever agree to schedule an open forum to answer the questions posted in this blog?

Not in this town. They should have the numbers regarding how much more revenue from property reassessments. As no property went down in assessment (Ha! Ha!), a healthy increase in revenue must have been from all the unjustified higher property assessments - mine went up over 6%. Where is the transparency? What a pathetic town government we have!

george hubbard said...

To: 07:59am

1. You ask, “Where do revenue increases come from?

2. I can’t help much.

3. The budget summary handout at public hearing 11/10 does not identify revenue increases.

4. My notes from oral presentation at hearing show employee contributions for health insurance increased by $450K (total= $600K) in 2016 budget. I believe my notes are correct.

Questions/comments invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

4:45pm
Your right. I just reviewed this blog. 2016 budget cut jobs and raise taxes. What more do dems need?

Anonymous said...

Is it true SCATS is sponsoring a field trip to 299 Swamp Road over in Sweeden so we can all go look at SuperBills Hot Rod Ranch?

Why is Bills Hot Rod Ranch located in the Town of Greece? Wasn't Bill able to get 501-c3 status for his car museum?
Was the second floor locked down at Town Hall so nobody could catch Bill looking at car magazines?

Will we get to ride on the expensive GCSD buses?

Will there be snacks?

Is there a coffee kiosk at the Swamp Road facility where Bill keeps all his antique cars? Are there sufficient toilet facilitys? Can we touch the cars?
How much Town owned property has been moved to 299 Swamp Road?
Will Rainbow be there to play tour guide?

SCATS said...

To 5:33PM ~~ SCATS has no idea what you're talking about. As for snacks, GCSD hosts plenty of those food truck rodeo events you should be able to find some $13 mac 'n cheese served out of a cardboard "dish."

Anonymous said...

Look up who owns 299 Swamp Rd on the County Clerk's site puttitat.

Eyeball the sweet assessment too.
Run that against Zillo or a similar site to see the real value.

Sweeden is more Republican than Greece.

I'm studying Socratic learning ability of Puttitats.

Anonymous said...

""GCSD hosts plenty of those food truck rodeo events you should be able to find some $13 mac 'n cheese served out of a cardboard "dish."""

ALDI is less expensive and probably better. At ALDI you get a refund if you ain't happy. Imagine what it would cost Sport District taxpayers if GCSD matched ALDI's guarantee.
Frightening, ain't it.
Good thing Law bars suits because the kid came out STUPID!
Od course, if you're a BORED member and your kid is stupid the District hires the kid and saves the family the embarrassment of the kid being on welfare.

SCATS said...

To 7:38PM ~~ Let me know when you're ready for your advanced degree.

To 7:43PM ~~ Aldi's rocks! You can get the mac 'n cheese you cook yourself for 39 cents a box on special! Hey, we could make a FOURCHOON selling that swill at the food truck rodeo for just 10 bucks!!!! I could be the next Donald Trump :)

Anonymous said...

Do cats running swill stands need to have County Health Department Permits and paw washing sinks? Those alone could take a bite out of the profit. Rubber gloves for a cat wouldn't be easy to come by either. Not sure if licking would cover the requirement.
Dang County Inspectors show up at a lot of events now.

Anonymous said...

To: 5:33 PM: What's with the 2nd floor lock down. Lovealy or Maggi don't have that kind of security protection that Bill needs. Even with out the top security you still had to go thru the young kid with the camera and his body guard M.M. aka "Miss Protect Bill at all Costs"

Anonymous said...

5:33PM I went to see the tree lighting at the County Office building and they have a Sheriff's Deputy and Security guard sitting outside Maggie's door. I also read in the paper the Mayor has a retired trooper drive her around and is with her at all public appearances. In this day and age of terrorism it is the world we live in.

SCATS said...

To 9:18AM ~~ Gimme a break! Mayor Lovely has had her own security from day one. It had little to do with safety, but a lot to do with hiring friends and relatives. What other communities around here have taken these measures?? I suspect none.

Anonymous said...

Bill Smith the Supervisor of Pittsford has an open door that only closes when he's having a meeting with someone who requests privacy. He's a Republican too.

Reilich is scared of the light of day or someone seeing what he's up to. Been that way since he was in State Legislature.

Why did he hide his car collection/museum in the woods on Swamp Road at the edge of Monroe County? What goes on out there????

Anonymous said...

Super Reilich can't hire his kid to drive him around.
Bill had to beg a lot of political favors when Junior smashed the lady's car that morning at Long Pond & Ridgeway. He ain't dumb enough to ride in anything the kid is driving. Bill even got Auggie to pull the Special Check Book out that day.


He sure has some interesting business dealings with OLD political names in Greece when you know who is who.

At least with Kirkie running Highway we don't have trucks getting smashed up. Of course the trucks rarely leave the DPW compound, and they ain't getting many miles, but they will last longer and snow will melt by July. Be very happy there's no snow yet.

Anonymous said...

To 2:12 PM Bill Moehle, supervisor of Brighton has his open door on the first floor of the Brighton Town hall right of the main lobby. No security there! Let's hear from other towns how their "boss" is protected. BTW there are a lot fewer spy cameras in Brighton's Town Hall AND their town hall rooms are open to the public !

Anonymous said...


To 2:12 PM - On the surface, I don't think there is anything wrong regarding the Swamp Rd property. What I saw on record is what looks to be a large pole barn on many acres of land. If there is a car collection being stored there, I would be nervous as far as security, but maybe they are insured beyond market value and there is little concern on the part of the owner?

Anonymous said...

No need to worry about "Security" at Swamp Rd, Doyle Protection signs all over the place. Remember Bill sold his Hudson Ave ghetto based alarm company The Reilich Group after he miraculously got all town and county alarm business on his way to State Leg.

How many truck loads of taxpayer owned asphalt millings have gone to Swamp Rd to expand the parking lot?

What was the off books deal with the landscape contractor Bill bought Swamp Rd from? What shows on the HiDef satellite pics assessors look at from X years back -v- today to assess the property?

Why do Realtor sites like Zillo have a far different description than County Records?

WHAT items were hauled to Swamp Road that belonged to Greece taxpayers?

How long till Hot Rod Ranch is a 501-c3 operation?

SCATS said...

To 2:27PM ~~ So many questions!! Just an FYI, there are LOTS of properties where the info on the county clerk's site doesn't match the reality of the Greece properties ... LOTS!! But we're sure there's NOTHING to see here ... especially if you discover the promise ;)

Anonymous said...

Is the guy that was fired from DPW that used to get wood from the transfer station and then sell it out in front of his home as fire wood still getting wood?

Anonymous said...

Will there be a SuperBill coffee kiosk in the parking lot?



Created: 12/22/2015 6:54 AM WHEC.com

Back in October Pat Taney looked into the status of the Crescent Beach Restaurant in Greece. John Pietrangelo bought the property and told Pat some professional hockey players would be partnering with him on the project. Pietrangelo said in October that he hoped to be open by Christmas.

Pat asked Pietrangelo again about the project.

Pat: What is your projected opening date now?

John: We’re probably looking at early spring. I’m not going to open without the patio in.

Pat: When we spoke in October you said the concrete would be poured if weather cooperated, and it’s been pretty warm.

John: The town requested a few more drawings.

The Greece Town Planning Board is waiting for those drawings. Neighbors are very frustrated at the condition. “It's apparent to all of us, if you look in windows, there's no wall board,” says Cheri Riley, Neighborhood President for Crescent Beach Association. “There’s maybe a truck there once a month. I think he's just smoke and mirrors.”

John: Nothing has been abandoned, we're there. We had major delays. We'll be addressing Crescent Beach 100 percent in January moving forward to get it ready for spring.

Pietrangelo said the former hockey players are still on board, but he will not reveal their names at this time. The Greece Town Planning Board is expected to take up the issue at its next meeting on January 6.

SCATS said...

To 12:48PM ~~ Is Cheri Riley related to the Donald??? As in former Town Supervisor?? My bet would be yes.

Anonymous said...

Rileys all originate from that area going back to Patriarch Rip & wife Dorthy who took over for Rip when he died. Donnie is the son of Rip & Dorthy.

Who Donnie begat is still an open question, DNA testing wasn't invented back then, but there were some interesting public events including Church functions.

I kind of lament the old days of Greece politics, especially Donnie in his VW Bug with Das Chief as copilot.

Anonymous said...

Happy 2016 Announcement

SuperBill Roadblock wearing his Repub Party Hat has moved Maggie Brooks to a newly created job at Regional Transit.

Maggie will be Vice president of keeping politicians kids out of the news there. This should work well for Antelli's son who is employed at Regional Transit learning to count coins from fareboxes so he can move up in the Republican Party after his tremendous success as a member of the Museum Board of Directors. It really doesn't matter Little Ricky was never able to find the Museum.

For those new to the area, the Transit Authority has long been a parking spot with paycheck for politicians. Don Riley went there after he was Greece Stupidvisor.
Unfortunately there was no room on the bus for Auggie who had to become a Funeral Home greeter.

Merry Christmas from Bill Roadblock
Look for your greeting from SuperBill and your Fire Department right after Christmas.
It's your tax bill

Anonymous said...

The last time I looked, 501 C3 designations are for not for profit charitable organizations There is no way in either instants this town operation meets that criteria. As far as the car barn goes , to qualify, he would have to form a not for profit corporation that sells classic cars and donates the proceeds to a recognized charitable organization. Can you really see him doing that?

SCATS said...

To 5:40PM ~~ I can't allow your grammatical faux pas go without comment! The word you wanted was INSTANCE not "instants." Geeze people ... has anyone gotten above a "C+" in English class?

Anonymous said...

5:40 obviously you are employing search skills learned in GCSD while studying ball.

Unfortunately these skills left you short, might have gotten you cut from the team as well.
SuperBill's path will be to charter the Swamp Road facility as a Car Museum via the Department of Regents(folks who are supposed to run EDUCATION); Well known to be an easy path. He could also employ the new On Line NFP Corp Chartering offered by Albany by filling in the form and sending it along with a $75 filing fee. Once Chartered, it's just a matter of filing for 501-c3 status with IRS and waiting for that to arrive. I'm sure the Town Attorney has and is advising Bill behind locked doors. Bill already knows how to get truckloads of milled asphalt from County Roads hauled to Swamp Rd to expand the parking lot at his Museum. I'm sure he also knows IRS policy allows the "museum" to operate in a tax free manner until the filing is approved.

Now, feel free to put your search skills back to work on what little runs around rules a certain asphalt contractor located on N Greece Rd just S of Post Ave is getting away with. They've trucked a lot of millings over to Swamp Road from the Landfill while other people asking for millings the Town offered free of charge were blown off by the Town Official running that show.

Anonymous said...

Where can I buy firewood now that the house no longer sells it? Maybe my Plummer knows??

Anonymous said...

8:52 the guy on Frisbee hill over by E Manitou is still selling firewood. Of course you can still go buy it free at the Town Dump right by Badgero Blvd as you head West toward Mount Kintz.

Anonymous said...

The plummer said "If you clean the creek bed they will let you hunt on their land" Do those deals still work since your not working?

Anonymous said...

You are correct about trucks not leaving the yard because kirk can't do anything without Billy telling him what to do. MICRO MANAGE AT ITS FINEST. If Billy wants to run the highway dept,why pay a commissioner, ooh yeah to have a fall guy. And juniors accident was ridgeway and latona, not long pond and yes swept under carpet and destroyed plow went west, and amazing how even the lady he hit won't say a word a out it. She did get a new car out of it.

Anonymous said...

Illegal to use AC on town trucks in the summer. Now that it is cold I wonder If Billy will let them use the heaters. if and when they leave t he lot

SCATS said...

To 4:27PM ~~ Illegal?? Surely you must jest.

Anonymous said...

To 4:27 Yes in jest, so maybe not " illegal " but just ask DPW workers if they are allowed to us AC in town vehicles. Even though I bet those two black suv's have AC and it gets used when the temp goes above 72. BTW are the 2 suv's owned by the town, they don't have official town plates ?

Anonymous said...

You'll like this...not only do they not have official plates they don't have GPS in them that they just installed in every town vehicle at Town Hall and Dpw. Ooh yeah the silver ford explorer doesn't either. And yes we can use the AC and the heat, but being watched thru GPS on their cell phones