Saturday, November 14, 2015

Reilich's Budget Dump Lacks Relevant Numbers


WHERE is the figure for the TOTAL BUDGET?

WHERE is the figure for TOTAL SPENDING?

HOW do those numbers COMPARE to last year?


Click on image to enlarge

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Poor SuperBill is just trying to cover expenses.
The Popo Rodeo this week cost a fortune in bent police cars and it will be worse if property owners get smart enough to file Notice of Claim on the Town for lawn damage. Bill is considering sending Kirkiepoo out to do good will lawn patching with the Highway guys.

SuperBill is also combating the Depression he got when he realized the UNION Fire Departments gouge taxpayers almost as much as Town Taxes do. Things ain't easy on Vince Tofany Blvd. No wonder the second floor is LOCKED DOWN.

Oddly, you can walk into Pittsford Town Hall and right into the Supervisor's office without even being pre-approved or patted down. Bill Smith in Pittsford is a Republican too.

george hubbard said...

To: SCATS

Public hearing 2016 Budget held Nov 10, 2015 at Town Hall... low (very low) attendance... 5 or 6 people in last row – looked more like observers, no participation (maybe students)... disappointing (very disappointing).

Anonymous said...

SCATS

GP essay says 29 vacant positions eliminated in 2016 budget. Doesn’t it follow 29 vacant positions were in 2015 budget... i.e. budgeted, but no expense 2015?

Wouldn’t this be under run 2015? How much? Where is it?

If 29 fewer positions in 2016, how much money is being saved?

Why isn’t budget going down next year 2016?

george hubbard said...

To: SCATS, Re: Your question - figure for total budget.
Budget summary handout at hearing Tue shows:

_____A__________B_________C__
______________2015______2016_
___FUND_______Appro-____Appro-
_____________priation__priation___
1. General_____________$36.7M_
2. Highway______________10.5M_
3. Library_______________3.0M_
4. Drainage______________1.3M_
5. Lighting______________2.4M_
6. Sewer_________________2.0M_
7. WaterExt______________0.008M
8. Self Ins______________0.6M_

9. Total_____$56.7M____$56.7M_

Questions/comments invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

Greece needs a budget watchdog where are the local democrats do they keep tabs on the budget? if not why not? Isn't that what the opposition party is supposed to do?

Anonymous said...

To: 8:27pm

Are you saying in Nov 2014, Supervisor submitted 2015 budget with 29 vacant positions... and Town Board approved 2015 budget (for this year) with 29 vacant positions?

If they knew, why did they approve?

If they didn’t know, why didn’t they know?

bud daughton said...

Well it is very clear to me who has followed the Bill Reilich since 2013 when he ran for office for the Greece Town Supervisors Job. He promised open Government and Transparency and would not follow John Auberger leadership of running the Town. He has lied, Greece Town Government is closed more now than before. The Town Board Agenda Meetings and Town Board Meeting are closed to Public Debate for all Residents of Greece. The New Police Station which they have already spent $500,000 and a bid has been put out for $9,000,000 with out putting it to a Public Vote. This Project is a closed bid process and residents are cut out of the system again. I attend all the meetings and it is very clear it is a Closed Government and a clear Rubber Stamp Process on every item that comes in front of the Greece Town Board that is 5 People controlling your Tax Payers Money. It is Clear day light Robbery. Wake up Greece your to blame for not doing your Job !! Holding the Greece Town Board Accountable for there actions. The 2015 Town Budget 71.4% is made up of Wages and Benefits for all Greece Town Hall Employees, also the Greece Town Supervisor takes home $129,000 plus his Job as the Republican Fundraising Chairman with an income of $100,000 a year. How much do you make each year per person. From the Chairman of the Greece Neighborhood Association Inc. Arthur J.R. Daughton.

SCATS said...

To 8:27PM ~~ Great question about why isn't the budget going down. Good luck getting an honest answer.

To George H ~~ Ty for the numbers.

To 9:23PM ~~ No, it's what EVERY CITIZEN should do.

To 10:30PM ~~ Your last 2 questions can only be answered by a Greece Town Govt insider, right? And they have NOTHING to say, except "yea" to every vote, every time.

To 11:56PM ~~

Anonymous said...

Text is small on SCATS. I read my copy Greece Post.

Reilich said, the proposed 2016 budget reduces appropriations by more than a half million dollars, but doesn’t give numbers.

As I read George Hubbard’s post 8:35pm, there is no budget reduction for 2016.

George, are you sure?

SCATS said...

To 3:12AM ~~ If you click on the image, it enlarges.

Anonymous said...

To Charlie. Give it up. People in this town don't care. I personally believe they feel impotent to do anything about the town budget or for that matter everything that goes down in Greece.. Even if they had the chance to vote on the town budget, they would stay home. I use the embarrassing turn out on a budget they do control, the school District
As long as there is one political party control in Greece. The democratic process ofCHECKS AND BALANCES will never exist. I don't see any hope of the present dictatorship process ending anytime soon. This is because the Democratic Party is in shambles,lacks leadership and is all but in the dumpster. Case in point,this years joke of a local election. The opposition candidate for the 2 nd ward,'s campaign consisted of an add in the classified section of the local garbage can liner. They ran no one else and just threw in the towel.
The democrats fell apart right after the embarrassing complete lose in the scandal ridden '09 election. They ran a full slate of good candidates and still did not win one board seat.This in a year that they should have had their best chance to win control. They lost for one big reason, the apathy of their base and the leaderships failure to get out the vote. As a result, only 8% of eligible democratic voters turned out to vote. No one can win with that kind of turn out. Even the Republicans did worse as their turn out was less as most stayed home because they couldn't vote for A burger.who actually lost by 2000 votes R to D. The 2400 conservative and independent votes gave him a 400 vote win. Go Figure!!

george hubbard said...

To: 3:12am Thanks for posting.

Budget summaries per TOG:

_____A__________B_________C__
______________2015______2016_
___FUND______Appro-____Appro-
_____________priation____priation___
1. General___$37.0M____$36.7M_
2. Highway____10.5M_____10.5M_
3. Library_____3.3M______3.0M_
4. Drainage____1.4M______1.3M_
5. Lighting____2.4M______2.4M_
6. Sewer_______2.0M______2.0M_
7. WaterExt____0.008M____0.008M
8. Self Ins______________0.6M_

9. Total_____$56.7M____$56.7M_

Ln#9 Total comes from adding raw dollars Lns 1-8, then rounding total as shown. Totals are equal to 0.01%.

Questions/comments invited.

Geo H.

george hubbard said...

To: SCATS

Total taxes to be paid = taxes to be collected = tax levy.
Tax levy goes up from 2015 to 2016 by $0.3M+.

Budget Tax Levy shown below.

_____A__________B_________C__
______________2015______2016_
___FUND_______Levy______Levy__
_______________________________
1. General_____________$20.8M_
2. Highway_______________8.6M_
3. Library________________2.8M_
4. Drainage______________1.3M_
5. Lighting_______________2.4M_
6. Sewer_________________1.9M_
7. WaterExt_______________0.008M
8. Self Ins________________0.0M_

9. Total_____$37.4M_____$37.7M_
_
Ln#9 Total comes from adding raw dollars Lns 1-8, then rounding sum total as shown. Total 2016 larger by $300K+.

Questions/comments/corrections invited.

Geo H.

SCATS said...

To 8:06AM ~~ I tend to agree with most of what you stated. However, don't forget, all it takes is a group like the former C.A.R.E. to form, attend meetings, speak out and things begin to change. They DETEST community participationat the town & school board level in Greece.

Anonymous said...

So George if I understand what you are saying; Example one, If my rate per thousand remains the same but 10 new commercial developments are built in town or maybe 500 new apartments were built the levy or total taxes collected goes up even though what I pay remains the same.
Example two, Conversely if a large industrial development was to be torn down and the levy stayed the same as the year before my rate would have to go up to make up the difference.
So from my home owner perspective I would say that example two my taxes went up because that is the check I would have to write at tax time. Example one would allow me to write the same amount as the year before so I would say the amount I paid did not go up.
If the levy goes up (total taxes collected) due to new development such as the new Verizon store or Dairy Queen or housing development that is growth and a good thing. The city is suffering from a rapid decline and buildings coming down and that is not good.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Look behind the curtain.......How much did that sign cost? And how about the new brick work ! What about the two new buildings at the spray park and pickle ball court? How much employee time was spent building the Relich Pavalion ? How much did the second floor lock out system cost. How much did he spend remolding the library so he could have a coffee shop...what about that coffee shop ?

SCATS said...

To 10:28PM ~~ Beware! The insiders will tell you they received grant money for much of that. The problem with grant money is that it stops and then WE GET TO MAINTAIN with our tax $$ what the grant bought.

Anonymous said...

10:28 - it is because of the 'curtain' that you don't have answers to any of your questions.

SCATS said...

To 8:02AM ~~ Maybe Reilich could help Trump build his wall ... ?

george hubbard said...

To: 7:11pm Thanks for posting.

1. Re: Your “Example one” (E1): E1 starts with, “If my rate per thousand...”

1a. Without numerical sets of tax rates and corresponding taxable values (assessments), you and I can not be certain we’re discussing the same situation.

1b. I can not argue for or against examples without verifiable data, or complete hypothetical situations.

1c. Can you complete the E1 example? Please do.


2. Re: Your “Example two” (E2): My response is same for E1.

3. Re: “So from home owner perspective I would say...”, you speak as a “homeowner”. The GP essay speaks to “residents”.

3a. Who are the intended “residents”?


4. Re: “...the check I would have to write...”:

4a. Your perspective is circumstantial – I don’t know the facts.

4b. Your conclusions about what goes up or down... is based on factors that CORRELATE with tax rates within one fiscal year... not CAUSES.

4c. Root CAUSES would need to consider multi-year influences on TOG spending/costs.

4d. Single year conclusions about budgets are risky... multi-year analysis are better. I made this point at the public hearing.

4e. You list Verizon store or Dairy Queen. Add a TOG version of Medley Center!

Questions/comments/corrections invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. If I as a homeowner write the same check to the town (for town taxes only) then my taxes remain flat. All your double talk about my example being "perspective is circumstantial " no it's really you are the one talking in hyperbolas. Speak plain English is my town tax owed is the same it is the same and everything else does not matter. You are starting to sounds like all the geniuses that retired from Kodak as they ran that company into the ground.

bud daughton said...

Mr G. Hubbard my list of town board and town board agenda and Planning and Zoning Board agendas is far more than 2 so George get your facts right. Also how many times I addressed the Town Board in the Public Forum also in the County Public Forum. Thanks for keeping track of me, you have to be there to do that or someone is telling you bad Information.

SCATS said...

To 12:43PM ~~ Talking in hyperbolas??? HOW do you do that??

SCATS said...

To Mr. Daughton & Mr. Hubbard ~~ Please don't start a peeing contest here. We're not posting anything more about your personal disagreement. TY for understanding.

george hubbard said...

To: bud daughton 3:09

The post at 11/15/2015 7:56PM is “Anonymous said” not me.

Your words present no offense here Bud... I know they don't apply to me.


To: SCATS 4:49

I’m not in a peeing contest with anyone – never have been, debate/discussion sometimes... peeing contest and personal attack - never.

... and have no personal disagreement – least of all with Mr. Daughton. See above.

Thanks for running SCATS as a site for open dialog.

Geo Hubbard

bud daughton said...

Thank You, I have had my say about my roll in the Town of Greece.

SCATS said...

If we discover we have an imposter posting as Geo. the comment will be removed.

george hubbard said...

To: 12:43pm Thank you for posting.

You say, “You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. If I as a homeowner write the same check to the town (for town taxes only) then my taxes remain flat.”

1a. I say, you ask a question then answer it. In any case, looking back over your post 7:11pm (it was your I assume) and 12:43pm your posts relate to writing checks… i.e. TAX BILL.

1b. My posts relate to BUDGET (Reilich/GTB essay and 2016 Budget Summary).

1c. TAX BILL is separate from and not part of BUDGET.



2a. I ask, do you have interest in the BUDGET other than to know affect on your TAX BILL.

2b. Many people are interested knowing about how the appropriations change year-to-year.

2c. For example, my post 9:17am shows appropriation for Library from 2015 to 2016 goes down $230K (-7.0%) largest percent reduction across all 8 funds.

2d. The Reilich/GTB essay states, [2016 budget] maintains all current programs and services… one of our most frequented has been Spray Park.

2e. Some residents (were they to know) might question the priority of Spray Park vs. cuts at the library.

In closing I ask, do you interpret Reilich/GTB essay is speaking from TOG perspective (BUDGET), or from taxpayer perspective (TAX BILL)?

Questions/comments/corrections invited.

Geo Hubbard

SCATS said...

BLOG Admin. deleted the comment posted on 11/15/2015 7:56 PM, since it was not authored by the named person.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Hubbard you make an incorrect assumption, the services at the library have not been cut. The relocation of the branch library saved the town many dollars, the elimination of a library director and deputy that each choose to work only 4 days instead of 5. The new library director and deputy now work 5 days there for the reduction in part time staff was a cost savings. The spray park that had over 10,000 people attend in the first 10 days by residents and an additional 1200 by non residents is money well spent.Libraries are changing, less books than ever and even computers usage is down since most have access with cell phones.
So just as you profess to dig deeper than just the check that is written you must know the facts behind the figures before you call into question the budget.
Regarding my statement of my written check being the same, that was stating my taxes did not go up. You stating the levy increase, to that I say "good" that is positive growth and if I go back to my MBA text books, that is an indication of a healthy community balance sheet, hence the AAstable credit rating of the town.

SCATS said...

To 9:03AM ~~ I take STRONG exception to most of what you've written, especially regarding the libraries. The funny thing about Greece libraries is that, just like the rest of town operations, we're constantly told that services are not cut. HA! HA! HA! That is pretty much a fairy tale on both ends. Add to that fact that as town population grows, services are not EXPANDED to keep up! Our libraries are used by many non-residents, as well. Libraries are essentially a COUNTY service provided through the towns given how they are linked together.

Your implied claim that circulation of materials is falling needs to be proved with verifiable numbers to be believed. Andrew Conlon, 3rd ward, claims in his diatribes highlighted by Town newsletters over the past few years that library services were in much greater demand! I've heard library staff claim that circulation is up, not just for books, but forms of new media obtained & provided for loan, like e-books, movies, music, etc. Have you checked the cost of a new book recently? Library bindings add to that price. New technologies aren't cheap either. Also, did you know, you can "borrow" artwork through the library?

As for the computer usage claim, I say TOTAL POPPYCOCK!! PROVE YOUR CONTENTION, please! The parking lots at our two branches are often completely full, even when school is in session. SOMEONE is using the materials offered. There have been times when patrons waited to use a computer. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't all that long ago that The Friends of the Library donated new computers to try to fill the void.

As for the spray park, I never heard of ANY call for wanting/needing one by the community. I also don't believe the community was ever asked whether or not they supported building one! While it might be a nice thing that the town built a spray park, it is definitely a WANT, not a "need" and it is not paid for by the CHILDREN who use it.

I'd like to know the spray park attendance on the LAST 10 days of the season, please.

Anonymous said...

9:03. How dare you take issue with one of the H boys. See what happens. You got it right Scats as usual got it wrong. She wants the kids to pay for the spray park. God forbid we spend any money on recreational programs tor the youth of thiis.town Scats claims that more people are moving into Greece . That s a true statement. However most of them can't read let alone use a computer and have no reason to use a library.

Anonymous said...

http://www.whec.com/article/stories/s3965258.shtml

https://www.roberts.edu/facultystaff/mark-concordia.aspx

Scats, another welfare recipient from Greece. Claims to be retired FBI. He's not. Paid by Greece taxpayers Sergeants' pay while doing federal work and teaching federal agents. His salary was $459,523 for his last 4 years with the feds, but he was there since 2001 according to his bio. What did we get as tax payers for well over a million dollars in pay over his last 13 years?!!!

Anonymous said...

Who wanted the spray park? Certainly not the adjacent neighbors who were not told it was going to be built. No one heard anything about it until construction started.. And how much was the total cost including all the town employee over time put into the project ? How much does it cost to operate ? Still spending $$$ on it. Now we have a new fence to keep out the elements from outside the town and a building to protect the young attendants who check residency and hand out arm bands.

SCATS said...

To 2:49PM ~~ TY very much for the info. I intended to look this guy up. I've seen him at GPD functions, etc. especially when Baxter was around. In fact, I saw Mike Green enter the room and go straight over to Concordia so they could slap each other's backs at the BIG promotion ceremony in May 2010. Curious ...

To 5:45PM ~~ BR says "Shut up and pay your over-inflated taxes."

george hubbard said...

To: 9:03am Thank you for posting.

1. You say, “Mr. Hubbard you make an incorrect assumption, the services at the library have not been cut…”

1a. I say, I make no assumption about cutting library SERVICES.
1b. I say, Library APPROPRIATIONS are cut... budget numbers prove this.


2. Reilich/GTB essay says, “The 2016 proposed budget – No tax increase for residents”

2a. I say, the budget doesn’t prove this.
2b. I ask, is statement conditional or unconditional for property owners in Greece?

Your move!

Questions/comments/corrections invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

SCATS

George asks an interesting question. Does No tax increase for residents mean all (100%) residents or 90% or 50% or 10%?

Probably not 0%.

The words don’t really say much. Clever!

Anonymous said...

9:23 we do have a budget watch dig in Greece. His name is G. Hubbard. For years he has meticulously scrutinized town and school district budgets. He is usually right. He has two problems as I see it. His ability to express his findings in layman's language and his reluctance to speak at board meetings presenting his findings and expose the flawed information and asking relavent questions.

Anonymous said...

SCATS

George 11:33 raises an interesting question. Does No tax increase for residents mean all (100%) residents or 90% or 50% or 10%?

Probably not 0% - that would be a lie wouldn’t it.

The words really don’t say much. Clever! Very clever!

Anonymous said...

2:42

Town has many soccer fields, baseball/softball fields, tennis courts, basketball courts and a football field (rarely used).

Also, schools have many facilities - more of each.

Many dollars spent on youth recreational programs in Greece.

SCATS said...

To 6:09 & 8:02AM ~~ It goes back to the old saw about "How can you tell a politician is lying? Answer: When his lips move."

To 8:33AM ~~ In addition to those look at the number of programs funded through the library & the Community Center! There's NO shortage of "youth activities" in Greece.

Unknown said...

To 2:42 Oh, but we didn't have any Pickle Ball courts ! , not that any one can't play pickle ball on a tennis court. Now we are going to light it (more $$$) so we can skate in the winter. What about Carter Park (which is already lighted) people use to skate there all the time back when there was no residency requirement .

SCATS said...

To 11:55AM ~~ The MORE facilities we have, the MORE maintenance & manpower it takes and the MORE we'll pay to keep it going!

Aren't you glad they didn't increase our taxes?? LMAO!

Anonymous said...

Iam retired town employee who retired with a generous retirement package from the town and the state. This might come as a surprise to many of you but as town resident, I have a problem with my tax bill concerning contractural health care benefits for life. No. You read this comment right. Allow me to explain and complain
As previously stated, I retired with one of the best family health care plan offered at the timeBlue Million. Of course this plan was expensive for the town. I retired at age 55 and the health care plan continued to be provided by the town.
Now comes the part that pisses me off. Once I turned 65, everything changed in a big way. Once Medicare eligible, I still maintained the family plan but my wife and I were required to have separate plans with no change in benefits.
Under Medicare, Medicare became my primary carrier. They now would pay 80% of the cost, with Excellus responsible for the remaining balance less co pays. Now here is the hook. Even though Blue Cross was responsible for just 20%, rationale would think that the health care cost to the town would be reduced by 80%. NOT SO! !I would later learn that the town was still required to pay the full premium including increases. So in reality , Blue Cross was lining their pockets with that amount of tax payer dollars.
A Call to Medicare confirmed that s way the law readsI was told that the fact that I had full coverage from the town, I still had to sign up and the law makes no exceptions. Now this fact is the substance of my complaint and anger. This obvious insurance company inspired law, forces me to tap the taxpayers twice for health care and again for the pension which is state provided but raxpayer supported.
I did not need Medicare coverage but had no choice but to abide by the law.The fair thing that should have been contained in the law, should have required private payers to adjust their premium costs to reflect that 80% savings to the former prime carrier thereby passing that savings to the taxpayers of Greece.SHEAR UNADULTERATED THIEVERY OF TAXPAYERER DOLLARS.BY THE HMO's