Wednesday, March 04, 2015

True/Total Cost of Stadium Unknown


Mar 04, 2015

Canned Clams,

Residents recently received an 8 page mailing, “SPECIAL EDITION, GREECE CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, 2015 Capital Improvement Project”.

Page 1 states, PROPOSITION 2* District Athletic Stadium, Build an athletic stadium on Arcadia campus... Project Amount $8,490,289”

Page 2 states, “PROPOSITION #2*, [Athletic Stadium Facility]... all at an estimated maximum aggregated cost of $8,490,289, the issuance of debt obligations...”

Question #1: How much is the interest on the ‘debt obligations’ (bonds)?

Question #2: What is the TOTAL COST of the Stadium?

Question #3: What is the LOCAL SHARE of the TOTAL COST?


*PROPOSITION #2
[Athletic Stadium Facility]
If Proposition #1 is approved, shall the proposition set forth in the legal notice of this special voter meeting, authorizing construction and equipping of an Athletic Stadium Facility on the campus of the Arcadia Middle/High School adjacent to the existing athletic field, to include a lighted artificial turf multipurpose field and related outbuildings, various related site and athletic field improvements and other incidental improvements, all at an estimated maximum aggregate cost of $8,490,289, the issuance of debt obligations of the School District therefor, the levy of a tax in annual installments therefor, all as more fully described in said notice, be approved?
  

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

Page 2 said, $8,490,289 is total aggregate cost. So TOTAL COST is $8.5million.

What's the point here?

Anonymous said...

SCATS,

Your questions are excellent. I knew there must be bonds involved in capital, but I couldn’t find a number for interest. So I assumed it must be included in the project amounts.

Now you made me look more closely.

I find page 6 says, Prop 1 & 2 total $43.5M.

Page 6 also says, “Total Aggregate Cost (Including estimated Interest Expense) $61.1M.

So, $61.1M - $43.5M equals $17.6M. This must be total interest for Prop 1 and Prop 2 combined.

I can't find interest for Stadium yet.

Hope this helps.

Anonymous said...

SCATS

Sports boosters said state aid is 78% for the stadium, so state will pay interest.

Quit trying to stir up trouble.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't apply to this topic, any rumors on school board candidates?

geo hubbard said...

SCATS

The figures to answer your questions are buried in the 8 pg GCSD mailing referenced.

Prop 2/Stadium cost summary:

Base Cost= $8.5M

Interest= $4.0M

Total Cost= $12.5M

State Aid= $2.8M... 23% of $12.5M

Local Share= $9.7M... 77% of $12.5M

Comments/questions invited.

SCATS said...

To 9:07PM ~~ TY for confirming that the Sports Boosters run the Greece Central School District, instead of the school board & Supt. Perhaps we should forward that info to NYSED. At least now we understand the district's ongoing issues with flagging enrollments, graduation rates and test scores.

Anonymous said...

Only two petitions out for school board. One incumbent.

Anonymous said...

Clever!!!

Anonymous said...

Board members in 3rd/last year of term:
Crandall
Grinnan
Van Orman

Is this right?

geo huhhard said...

SCATS

Post from 8:52pm was not visible when I posted 10:33pm,

But I agree... total interest expense= $17.6M for two props.

Prop1= $13.6M interest... cost up 39%.
Prop2= $4.0M interest... cost up 47%.

Readers must calculate... GCSD info doesn’t tell.

SCATS said...

To 1:53PM ~~ According to the GCSD website that info is CORRECT.

To George H ~~ Comments are moderated which means until someone on SCATS reviews and posts them, you won't see them. The lag time varies since oversight of this BLOG is a VOLUNTEER effort.

Anonymous said...

Grinan only one with petition.

SCATS said...

To 2:57PM ~~ Oh Lord help us all !!! That means write-in votes again and likely another 3 years of Julia!!!!!

Anonymous said...

According Hilton school district official mr Hubbard's facts are upside down. The state pays 78% including interest?their actual cost was the 22% figure. It was also stated that this formula has always applied to these projects in other districts like Irondequoit and Gates Chili for similar programs as CIP aid.

SCATS said...

To 3:13PM ~~ Your comment is so bizarre, we almost didn't post it! WTH does a "Hilton school district official" have to do with Greece Central's business, voting, projects, etc??

geo hubbard said...

To: 3:13pm

GCSD mailing, pg 5
Greece Prop 1/CIP cost summary:

Base Cost= $35.0M

Total Cost= $48.6M

Interest= $13.6M

State Aid= $39.0M... 80% of $48.6M

Greece gets 80%... Hilton gets 78%... close enough on CIP.

Now, can we see Hilton Stadium figures?

Comments/questions invited.

Anonymous said...

The only tithing bizarre is that by coment did not meet your standards as the worth of this projects when the proof becomes fact instead of inaccuraracy, print the inaccurate if it backs your position

Anonymous said...

I hate to be the one to pour cold water on you're ill fated attempts to defeat this project. But the truth is that Inspite of all your efforts to derail this initiative, I have every reason to believe you will not be successful. The odds are stacked against you on this one.

Not only does this Stadium project have the support of the school sports boosters , but the parents of children that participate in various sports programs in our schools who will benefit from this venue but has strong support from the business community. In addition , they have similar support among the various Service Organizations in Greece including the Greece Rotary and the Greece Kiwanis club.

While those of you who are opposed are busy tossing out numbers and percentages that at times are only understood by the author, they have been working the grass routes supporters by working the phones. A method that will surely be employed the day of the vote in order to get the vote out.This strategy will in my opinion will have a much more far reaching effect on the out come than your absentee ballot initiative.At any rate we will have to wait until the twenty fifth to see which side will prevail .



SCATS said...

To 6:04PM ~~ Are you a fortune teller? How do you know what's "ill fated" this far ahead of time? The TRUTH is that you don't.

I'm not surprised that the Greece athletic supporters have been beating their drums to get people out to the polls. Good for them! It's about time they get off their collective arses and WORK FOR THIS. The fact they didn't in the past is why they never got a stadium. It's as simple as that.

As for their "grass routes supporters" you've shown once again that academics in Greece are lacking. My grass has roots, just like my hair.. Yours has routes, like you take to work. Interesting ...

Yes, Greece Central is about to become a true SPORTS DISTRICT ... BOO-YAH!!

Anonymous said...

GCSport District Math Test.
A score above 65% will get you a Diploma with Advanced Credits.

If GCSD manages to get a sifficient number of athletes and athletic supporters off their asses to get the Babsie Bowl approved, and GCSD borrows $8,490,289 after Babs finds an underwriter and banker to take the Bonds, for 5% given all the financial issues, and the bonds are all 20 year Bonds, selling at a generous estimate of 92%, answer the following;
A, what account will any and all State Aid be diverted to so no Bonds have to be called?

B, How much will the Bank actually turn over to GCSD if 100% of the Bonds sell at 92?

C, Where will GCSD make the shortfall up from?

D, What will the total amount of Greece Tax Dollars be to pay the Bonds off over the 20 year period?

E, How many years will elapse between GCSD accepting the Babsie Bowl from Crapstar or another 3rd rate contractor until the condition of the Bowl necessitates safety & repair inspection by competent people such as LeChase?

E-1, What will be the inspection cost?
E-2, Where will Greece athletes play with themselves and others while the Bowl is out of service?
E-3, How long will the Bowl be out of service?
E-4, Will demolition be cheaper than repair?

F, Who will get the refreshment concession?

G, How many Board Members children will have to be added to teams as gestures of gratitude rendering GCSD teams LOOSERS?

H, Who is getting the kickbacks from the contractor building Babsie Bowl and how is the job being shorted to cover kickbacks?

I, Will there need to be an elevator added to get fat a$$ed Board Members up to the all important Board Box seating?

J, List 3 reasons GCSD needs the Babsie Bowl.

SHOW ALL WORK OR THERE WILL BE NO CREDIT.

geo hubbard said...

To: Post 3:13pm

1. I attended public info session last night (Thr 3/5) at Arcadia MS on upcoming capital projects vote.

2. There were discrepancies in the presentation between written word on the screen... and spoken word from the speaker regarding State Aid for Prop1 and Prop2.

3. Prop1/CIP written said SA= 80%. Spoken said SA= 92%. After public dialog/deliberation of figures on screen, I understood SA= 80%+/- (of TOTAL COST $48.6M) to be basicaly correct.

4. Prop2/Stadium no written word. Spoken said SA= 78%. After public dialog/deliberation of figures on screen, it was concluded SA= 23% (of TOTAL COST $12.5M) was correct.

5. The audience consisted of... perhaps 7+/- residents, 3 BOE members, 6+/- GCSD employees.

Comments/questions invited.

Geo H.

Anonymous said...

MR Hubbard if your attendance numbers are correct then based on comments by you and your brother only 5 other residents showed up. This is consistant with the attitude of indifference that has resulted in declining numbers of residents bothering to vote on school budgets over the past several years . These numbers translated into just slightly more than 5% of eligible voters caring enough to vote. These are embarrassing numbers for a community of this size. By taking this fact into consideration along with continued voter apathy, why would we believe the numbers for this up coming vote will be any different.
With this kind of attitude, the future of Greece is clouded at best.

Anonymous said...

Scats I have a question for you. Other than related costs why are you so against any and all sports programs in our schools? Do you not see the value of these activities as an important teaching tool as well as physical conditioning. After reading your many comments on this topic over the years I have come to that conclusion . Please tell me I am wrong about your position or tell me why you are in opposition to sports in our schools.

Anonymous said...

Re: 6:04pm - why am I not surprised that your ilk will resort to cheating tactics to get what you want? 'Working the phones' is political-speak for an underhanded tactic used by unpopular regimes and unions to obtain their selfish demands of the community when they KNOW they can't get what they desire by routine methods. Our children are doomed by lessons learned from those like you.

SCATS said...

To 7:18AM ~~ Yes the numbers who vote continue to decline. As I blogged a year ago (about the pathetic 2800 who bothered to vote on the budget), the district has made NUMEROUS changes in recent years that help to keep the "NO" votes (in particular) away on vote day. Greece's future has been "clouded" ever since the voters re-elected a Supervisor caught in several horrendous scandals, not to mention his own web of lies uttered on the witness stand (I don't know ... I can't recall ... )!! At this point, moving elsewhere is what many who care are opting to do. Look at GCSD enrollments.

To 10:43AM ~~ We've responded to this question before, many times.

We are NOT "against all sports."

We ARE against promoting/placing/valuing sports above academics!!

Here's a RECENT example of how GCSD places sports above academics: In the last half dozen years or so, Greece has CUT OUT MANY ELECTIVES at the HS level and blamed it on economics, budget constraints, etc. Our BOE even stated that they wanted seniors to show-up to take ONLY the minimum required classes and then leave school for the day! On the other hand, they never told any sports team to come for practice only because they were cutting funding for transportation to, or that they would no longer be providing what's needed to host sports competitions in Greece!

This is a very sad state of affairs for a district that is struggling to graduate students!


To 11:06AM ~~ I think you nailed it!

Anonymous said...

To 11:06 please be advised that I am not offended at your weak attempt to insult me. I choose to consider the source as being an uniformed individual who just doesn't understand how things get done in this town as well as others. Since I belong to none of the groups I mentioned your label does not apply as I am someone who has information and an opinion I have no stake in the out come of the vote and do not care one way or another.On the other hand, what these groups may or may not be doing, differ from this blog urging it's readers to call their friends to vote and get absentee ballots. That's not cheating at all in either case. Just a good way to urge people who support you position to express that support with their vote

SCATS said...

To 1:24PM ~~ I think 11:06AM does in fact "get it"!! His/her remarks do show an understanding of exactly what kinds of tactics people in Greece will resort to when they fear defeat!

If you really didn't care one way or another, you wouldn't bother sharing "your opinion." That's MY opinion :)

Anonymous said...

To scats I understand your argument but I have known for ten plus years about the fiasco attached to senior classes in our schools My Grand Daughter told me back in 2003 what a joke her senior class day was. They actually were instructed to write a essay in which they were told to evaluate their educational experiences during their time spent in all grades in the district. No doubt this time could have been spent more productively by reviewing subjects that they were deficient in while preparing for graduation.while electives have their value being up to speed on reading, writing math and science are far more important.When my Grand Daughter who was a straight A plus student went on to college ,she found herself grossly deficient these three subjects at that level and had to enroll in remedial classes to catch up with students from other areas of the country
My point is that if you are going to throw money at a long standing problem, it shouldn't be on electives but increased attention to students lacking in these areas by creating programs to correct the problem before they leave and experience the disappointment encountered by my Straight A AP grand daughter.

SCATS said...

To 1:54PM ~~ Many electives provide opportunities for students to hone their skills in reading, writing, or math and science areas. We're not talking the loss of basketweaving classes. Most of those were eliminated in the '90s.

Anonymous said...

In my opening comment I did express an opinion about your efforts. I said I have reason to believe your efforts on this site will fail. In my last comment e I don't believe I expressed an opinion on the project at all in fact I think I covered my thought well when I basically said.

I DONT CARE!

geo hubbard said...

To: 6:04pm and others interested

1. Thank you 6:04 for posting. You say,

"I hate to be the one to pour cold water on you're ill fated attempts to defeat this project. But the truth is that Inspite of all your efforts to derail this initiative, I have every reason to believe you will not be successful. The odds are stacked against you on this one."

1a. It’s not clear who you are directing your comments to, but I suspect to me at least in part, so may I reply.

1b. I am a believer in the voting process... if residents want a stadium in Greece, then Greece should have it... I have not opposed a stadium in public or in private, but only argued that voters be informed with complete and useful information to make informed decisions... I hope voter turnout is strong.

1c. I could easily vote ‘yes’ on a $8.5M Stadium in May. I do not favor discretionary spending on a $8.5M Stadium that costs $12.5M... voted with a likely low turnout in March.

1d. I do not harbor any delusions of reaching many voters... for me there are other measures of ‘success’... Posts 7:18pm (voter turnout/apathy), 1:54pm, and others, and several by SCATS all make important points.

1e. Yes, the odds are stacked against me, but I have seized a situation/opportunity where voters, as owners of the school district, deserve better treatment.

I’ll respond the other paragraphs on separate posts.

Comments/questions invited.

Geo Hubbard

geo hubbard said...

To: 6:04pm and others interested

2. You say,
"Not only does this Stadium project have the support of the school sports boosters , but the parents of children that participate in various sports programs in our schools who will benefit from this venue but has strong support from the business community. In addition , they have similar support among the various Service Organizations in Greece including the Greece Rotary and the Greece Kiwanis club."

If Stadium project gains support based upon valid representations of costs and benefits, a decisive vote will resolve the issue. It’s not about me against them.

Comments/questions invited.

Geo Hubbard

SCATS said...

To George @ 11:46PM ~~ The problem is whether or not GCSD has provided "valid representations of costs and benefits" ... they repeatedly show us they can't be trusted to do so.

Anonymous said...

Mr HUBBARD please don't waste your time as my last comment was not aimed at you. I understand and appreciate your efforts even though I disagree with your numbers.

My comments were directed to the Scat blog which has been involved in a crusade to help defeat this proposal. Even then I am not critical of those efforts as I respect the blog administrators position on this important subject.

My only reason for my original post was to point out the efforts of those on the other side of this issue as compared to this Blogs position. While I am not a fortune teller as suggested by Scats and do not possess a crystal ball, when I said these efforts on this blog would fail is an expression of my opinion on this part of the persuasion .

As for the project itself I have formed no opinion and as I feel it will not have an effect on my personal situation in either case, I have developed an I DONT CARE attitude about the whole damn thing.

geo hubbard said...

To: 6:04pm and others interested

3. You say,
“While those of you who are opposed are busy tossing out numbers and percentages that at times are only understood by the author, they have been working the grass routes supporters by working the phones. A method that will surely be employed the day of the vote in order to get the vote out.This strategy will in my opinion will have a much more far reaching effect on the out come than your absentee ballot initiative.At any rate we will have to wait until the twenty fifth to see which side will prevail .”

3a. While I was/still am... not opposed to Stadium, I am likely the author of the numbers and percentages... I am disappointed to hear you think these were only understood by me. The facts are NOW showing that is not the case. Read on.

3b. My copy of 8 page mailing, “SECIAL EDITION, GREECE CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, 2015 Capital Improvement Project” arrived 2/24. Until that date there had been no published cost figures for voters... figures in mailing had project costs and finance charges scrambled... and there were no costs of any description specific Prop2/Stadium.

3c. My starting point was not to challenge incorrect published figures, but to make voters aware important figures were MISSING. Consider for Prop2/Stadium these 4 figures: TOTAL COST= $12.5M – not published, INTEREST= $4.0M – not published. STATE AID= $2.8M – not published LOCAL SHARE= $9.7M – not published. After solving for these, I calculated 2 percentages: STATE AID= 23% and LOCAL SHARE= 77%. All 6 figures were missing in the mailing... and in the two public information meetings I attended.

3d. However, the SE (Stadium Enthusiast) folks were hearing verbal (not in writing) STATE AID= 78%. I know this firsthand from more than one instance... and SEs were publicizing 78% as a sweet deal. Certain key SE people have NOW come back to me challenging my STATE AID= 23% and LOCAL SHARE= 77% saying these are upside down (see Post 3/05/2015 3:13PM). So, I was not the only one who understood the percentage numbers. Remember I own the math, GCSD owns the raw financial figures!’

3e. What BOE members knew and when I can’t say, but as of Arcadia public meeting 3/5... when/where district staff trapped themselves in their own web on 78% figure, 3 BOE members knew.

3f. ONE HAS TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF TO THINK THIS INFORMATION AND ITS TIMING WERE A COINCIDENCE!

3g. I’m not an evangelist against a Stadium, but I probably come close on ‘open communications’. See my upcoming ad in next weeks G. Post.

Thanks for your time... comments/questions invited.

Geo. Hubbard

SCATS said...

To 10:11AM ~~ You keep saying you don't care, BUT you keep writing back, over & over again, to tell us all how much you do not care! LMAO

Methinks YOU CARE VERY, VERY MUCH ;)

To George H. ~~ TYVM for your hard work in bringing to light the numbers DO & the BOE didn't want revealed! These tactics on the part of the district, the sports boosters and the athletic supporters are so predictable! They will DO ANYTHING to win! Cheating isn't a problem in Greece elections, and we all know it.

Anonymous said...

You are entitle to your opinion as am I But because of the way you responded to my original comment and ones that followed in an attempt to correct you and Mr Hubbard's thinking that I was responding to his comments, you have now given me a reason to care . not about the project but the eventual outcome of the vote. I will now be cheering for a positive vote if for no other reason other than Hubbard's hard work, to see the efforts of the blog site to crash and burn on the night of the twenty fifth. Using your last comment as a reference we will see which one of us will be as you put it LMAO I DO CARE ABOUT THAT.

Bye the way I forgot to tell you why I don't care. I am not a Greece resident but I have a small business in Greece. My boys both go to Gates Chili were we have had lights for years.

SCATS said...

To 2:46PM ~~ We've stated several times on various threads that we expect the proposition to pass ;)

We always knew you cared! LMAO :)

BTW, WHERE has SCATS actually told people to vote "no"? So far, we haven't stated that as far as we can recall!

Anonymous said...

Pay attention Litterbox Lickers

I WANT my Babs Bowl
I actually pay school taxes in GCSD
I deserve mu Babs Bowl monument to my suckcess in GCSD.
Babs Bowl = YES

I'm willing to pay the miniscule increase in taxes for my house and
you should be too.
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN
THEY NEED SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF
LARD KNOZ it won't be their ability to read.
I've even instituted a program so the little darlings can pronounce and remember Babsie Bowl.

My staff has spent countless hours putting this package of crapola together so you vote yes too. I'm voting yes, staff is voting YES, dead people are voting YES, you should too.

Lets get this project rolling, Crapstar Construction is waiting to screw it up, and they employ GCDS Diploma holders. Put GCSD kids to work and keep them off welfare. Once Babsie Bowl is moving ahead we can move on to important items, like Babs Rink and Babs Day Care.

Just think, by my retirement we can all ice skate together at Babs Rink. Free hot chocolate!

You really didn't think it was all about reading or math, did you? Kids hate that crap.

Don't screw with Babs, VOTE YES

BDW just BD now.

SCATS said...

ANY resemblance between BDW or BD & 3:02PM is purely coincidental :)

Bullisio said...

Did anyone realize that in the flyer that was sent out, the birds-eye view of the proposed stadium is a mirror image of the actual satellite photo? If I were the architecture firm responsible (Labella Associates) for sending out a flyer to thousands of residents with such an obvious error on it, I would be pretty embarrassed! Did none of the thousands of residents even notice that the pic of the school was flip-flopped completely?

SCATS said...

To 4:17PM ~~ Interesting! But hey, do you expect PERFECTION for $12.5 million??