Tuesday, April 09, 2013

Greece Coaches Suffer "Field Envy"

At tonight's Resident's Forum, several former and current Greece Central coaches, athletic directors & student athletes spoke to the school board pushing for one or more artificial turf fields with lights.

There were so many ridiculous and/or ominous quotes, it was hard to keep up. Here's a sampling of how they completed sentences that begin with some form of "We need turf fields because ...":
  • "It will bring the town together in ways you never imagined." (God help us!!)
  • "By no means are we strong-arming." (Of course, people only say that when they ARE strong-arming, otherwise there would be NO NEED to say it)
  • "There's a lack of pride of the athletes." (The athletes do NOT pay the taxes to provide or maintain such facilities.)
  • We need such a field/facility "to prepare for college." (We can't even stay off the NY State watch list for under-performing schools without closing buildings & renaming the facility!)
  • "Pine Brook children in wheelchairs could go to the games." (Is there REALLY a big demand for this?? News to me!)
  • "There's nowhere for handicapped students to go (to watch games." (See my above remark.)
  • "We can shovel it off ourselves." (In lieu of Phys Ed class?)
  • "It will save us money from lining and maintaining fields." (Artificial turf is NOT maintenance-free!)
  • "It will prevent injuries." (Show me!)
  • "People want it, but we need some support." (If enough people "wanted it" you would already have that support!)
  • "We are so far behind Section V." (Is it our district's mission to keep up with Section V, or to graduate students who are college and career prepared for the real world? This statement is nothing more than "field envy" and it's NOT pretty.)


Anonymous said...

Let's get something straight....SCATS the only athletic director that was present was Dick Cerone( who retired years ago) The girls and the boy were no where to be found because they do not have an once of PASSION for athletics or Greece. The board of education and cabinet should take this group up on the offer to do the Athletic Director's jobs! You may also want to read some research on Winning Athletic Programs = Winning in the Classroom! Thank you passionate parents, coaches, teachers, kids and former Athletic Directors for caring about Greece's future!

Anonymous said...

And did any of these coaches and athletes show up with any type of check from on-going fundraising efforts to put towards such a request? If they really wanted it that badly, one would think showing some initiative would be helpful. But hard work to raise some funds and motivate athletes to take pride in their schools and teams would be out of the question, huh? And by the way, I have a handicapped child, who happens to be in a wheelchair sometimes and yes we still go to my teenager's athletic events. You see, it is my responsibility, not the tax payers responsibility to "turf" a field so my son could watch his brother... there are alternatives when you have to think creatively (and no we are not PB students).

Anonymous said...

They may be right when comparing our district's athletic fields to many other districts. No, in fact I know they're right. But here's the thing: I wonder how many of these other districts have been offering to pick up any child, anywhere in their district, and bus them to any school they choose within the district...for the last 20 years? I've said it here and elsewhere for a long time: there's only "X" number of dollars in the pot, where do you want to spend it? In Greece, we spend (and for a long time have been spending) it on diesel fuel. I wonder how many lighted, turf fields we could have built by now for the money we've spent on lottery/schools of choice over the years? Too late now now folks, we've made our bed.

SCATS said...

To 9:10PM ~~ You may want to revisit budgets of years gone by. We've CUT academics, over and over and over again. But sports live on despite declining enrollment, rising costs, lower graduation rates and a hundred other realities. We need books. We need lab equipment. We need variety in course offerings. We do NOT "need" night games. It's a WANT, not a NEED ;)

To 11:22PM ~~ It sounded like the "we've gotta make Selke's dream come true" gang. Old and tired ...

Good point 11:36PM. And the free transportation to a babysitter ANYWHERE in town, too.

Anonymous said...

Greece lacks an athletic complex because it's the adults who want it....... not the kids.

Anonymous said...

I need a new car. But I don't have any money. Where do I go to get some free money?

We really need higher graduation rates! Now that is a real need!!

Anonymous said...

Scats you are soooooo right! If the AD's and coaches want lighted fields then let the union cough up some money out of their bloated paychecks to pay for lighted fields.

I don't give a rat's rear end about lighted fields. We have kids graduating that can't read, write or do simple math like adding and subtracting a check book.

As taxpayers we have spent in Greece alone a BILLION dollars on education in the last decade for a slew of kids graduating that are dumber than rocks. Lighted fields are going to improve this?? What hubris the AD jocks have!

Anonymous said...

STOP using the busing as an excuse to not move forward in this district! This committee was at the board asking permission to go forward with fundraising efforts! We are losing families that became College and Career ready back in the 80's and 90's in Greece! They are RUNNING for Hilton, Webster,Spencerport ect! Why? Not because they have more books, lab equipment and more course offerings. They run because these other district's are passionate about every aspect of education and don't just cater to the Non-acheivers.

SCATS said...

To 1:11AM ~~ BINGO!! You are absolutely right! It's always been that way.

To 4:48AM ~~ Dittos!

To 6:37AM ~~ LMAO!! As if that would EVER happen ... ha ha ha ha!!! Good point about spending the $1,000,000,000+ on education.

To 7:01AM ~~ I personally know several families who ran to other districts that you mentioned. Not a single one mentioned ANYTHING in their reasons that wasn't based upon academic/classroom outcomes & graduation expectations. For the last 2 years, Julia told us we would be NEEDING to cut back sports to keep our budget under control. Once again, the Greece Central SPORTS District came through for the steroids-for-lunch bunch.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations bloggers! So far I have read nothing here that does not comply with the well- deserved reputation and perception attached to Greece by non-residents of a backward bunch of losers who thrive on scandals and negativism. These are residents who have absolutely no pride in the town they call home and reject any ideas to change that image of Greece. Keep up the good work.

SCATS said...

To 11:28AM ~~ The keyword in your rant is "perception." As is so typical of those who are OK with the scandals, etc. you worry more about our image than our reality. They are often very far apart, something more people are realizing as time goes on.

If you want to really bring some meaningful change to Greece, you will need to accomplish it in the classrooms, not the gym.

Anonymous said...

Scats, I don't live in Greece. I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of "perception." It is a powerful word with many consequences. When one
perceives something whether it be about your School District or your town, whether or not that perception is good or bad, it's mighty hard to change that
view unless circumstances take place to alter that perception. I share that view with many of my friends and associates who view your town in this light.
Regarding backward thinking, your Town Hall is backward with the front in the back and the back in the front. I rest my case.

SCATS said...

To 2:50PM ~~ It is a powerful word. It's also one of those times where perception & reality might be very different. There was a "perception" 20 odd years ago that Greece Schools were very good. Was that a reality? Hard for me to believe after discovering our district SECRETLY printed disclaimers on the backs of students' diplomas! That action by itself begs the question that IF the schools are so damned good, why would the district need to cover it's arse like that?? Thanks to one particular past BOE member, that disclaimer was eventually removed by a 5-4 vote of the BOE.

Anonymous said...

I have recently been directed to this blog(more specifically this topic) from a friend and I am very eager to get in on the discussion. I have spent some time reading previous discussions on topics regarding the school district and I agree with some submissions, but disagree with most of them. It doesn't seem to me that many of the submissions are written with personally gained knowledge, but more with what I like to call "bandwagon" facts. Before I chime in on this topic and others in the future, I need a little background info from SCAT. Please provide me with the following information so I can get an idea of who I will be working with.

1. What is your background that makes you an "authority" on these topics?

2. Why do you hate the town you reside in and the school district within it?

3. Why did you choose to be anonymous in your blog? (background may answer this)

4. What efforts, besides complaining, have you made to correct these issues or better the town?

5. Since your blog creation in 2006, what differences have resulted from your "truth"?

I look forward to our future discussions.

SCATS said...

To the person who wrote in asking for biographical info so you "can get an idea of who I will be working with ..."

Surely you must jest! You can't even get the name correct when there's just 5 letters (there's an "S" at each end), so how can I "work with" you? (Not that I'm inclined to anyway.)

Most of what you seek has been posted repeatedly on past BLOGs. There's an archive available for your use.

Anonymous said...

SCATS, I apologize for misspelling your blog title. Unfortunately, I do not have enough time to look through all of your posts to find the information I requested. I would appreciate you answering the questions. Also, I have not seen my original post on the blog yet. Was it placed somewhere special?

Anonymous said...

The adults backing this sports multi-complex idea are even more out of touch than our school board and administration!

What happened to the threats about cutting sports due to the budget? I know Vanorman yammered on about that a lot last year. I know Babs threatened it too saying we'd have "no choice."

I can think of a hundred things our schools desperately need, but none of them are on the wish list of these guys.

What Greece does not need is more noise, litter, traffic, security problems and the extra expenses of trying to mitigate those issues.

Anonymous said...

7:01 the $1,000,000 or more annual cost that lottery/school of have cost taxpayers is a perfect example of what this town got for their money instead of several things, improved sports facilities included. How can you say that money being spent in any area doesn't affect it not spending in another? By family went to Florida this year, which is why we didn't go to New York City. We had a nice trip, but we couldn't afford to do both.

SCATS said...

To 11:53AM ~~ Do I know you?? We certainly think alike lol

To 1:05PM ~~ Something I want to remind you (and especially this new group) about.

The MAIN REASON Greece doesn't have such a facility is this: NO ONE, and I do mean NO ONE WANTS THIS STADIUM IN THEIR BACKYARD or NEIGHBORHOOD! And I am willing to bet lunch that INCLUDES the people in this "new" group!

This misguided quest has been going in circles through the town for a number of DECADES, not just 20 years!

Athena neighbors do not want it.

Arcadia neighbors do NOT want it.

Odyssey neighbors do NOT want it.

Olympia neighbors do NOT want it.

The Town govt did NOT want to deal with it by placing it in a park or at their complex either!!

Anyone who wants to get anywhere with such a project would best educate themselves REALLY, REALLY well about the DETAILS of why it has not happened. Otherwise, history will repeat itself ... again.

Anonymous said...

Obviously SOMEONE and I mean many SOMEONES wants this or we wouldn't be having this discussion. The district does need many things. That is not something that anyone will fight with you about. What's different is this group is willing to do the majority of the work to get it funded at very little, if any cost to the taxpayers to construct. Similar projects have been coordinated in the same manner around the state and the country (I've looked it up on the web). Let's support something on this blog or offer help instead bashing please.

And, before you try to insult my intelligence, which is the first line of defense for many on this blog, I know that "someones" is not a real word.

SCATS said...

To 4:54PM ~~ Just because a FEW (and I mean a MINORITY FEW) want something doesn't mean they should get it or that we "need it.

Again, it's a WANT, not a need. The $$ is better spent on other things.

PS~~ Why would you risk appearing/sounding uneducated by using a nonexistent word when there are so many real alternatives that carry a more powerful message??

Anonymous said...

This blog site has been a long-time opponent of Friday night lights, long before its inception, going back to the 70's and for the same out-dated reasons.

SCATS said...

To 9:57AM ~~ How can this BLOG site be opposed to something that happened "long before its inception"?

SCATS said...

By the way, what are those "outdated reasons"? I'll bet you can't name three ;)

Anonymous said...

My boy Lance figures he has a good 5 to 7 years left in his High School career, and he just might go out for sports if this new complex has sexing stations so he can sex up a cheerleader before he plays.

Does anybody know if sexing stations are included? Lance says you can't even get into the Piano Room to sex a girl up there.

Anonymous said...

One must read between the lines In order to understand the implications. I can name
five that are no longer relevant because they were addressed and concerns remedied through inter governmental cooperation and planning at the time.
Because of your obvious direct knowledge of the original plan for lights only, I'm sure you most certainly are aware of how these issues and concerns were
addressed and corrected. The fact remains that this initiative failed not because of the concerns raised, but because of the internal squabbling that took
place within the district's sports programs by those responsible at the time to
administer these programs at each of the secondary schools. For this reason, the district opted out and rejected the money raised to buy and install the
lighting equipment in order to cater to the egos of these ADs. Sad to say, that if not for this fact, the lights would already have been a reality. If this new group is successful, it will have a much different outcome.

SCATS said...

To 6:06PM ~~ By all means please name the five!

I disagree with your generalized assessment. In Selke's case, he claimed "to have a plan." It really wasn't and that was why it was ultimately rejected.

Edward Gartz said...

When Greece obtains the funding necessary to build a new stadium we the citizens of Greece should show the state a new way of creating a stadium and keep the cost reasonable and build it so the neighborhoods are least affected. A multi purpose stadium on land that DOES NOT adjoin any one school would work for all. Sharing the Stadium will give it more use and allow the town to have events that might raise money to pay for part or all of the upkeep. It seems that the days of having every school have large stadiums is over. Why build many when you can built one that can be shared by all and still be each schools home Stadium. I don't have all the answers but I'll bet that if given thought it can be accomplished. Then the fields they have today can be used for practice and perhaps a few games when the town stadium is booked.

Edward Gartz said...

It's time to recognize success.
The students of the Re-Engagement Center invite you to a presentation of photos and essays highlighting much of the service learning that we have participated in this year. There will also be a focus on our anti-bullying efforts. All are welcome to attend. Please join us on April 18th from 11:30-12:30.

Thank you,
Eddie Gartz

SCATS said...

To Ed ~~ I have a few questions about this event & its participants. First, who in their right mind thinks that normal people can attend at that hour of the day? Second, how many students attend the Re-engagement Center and how do those numbers breakdown by grade level? Third, have Karen Klein's tormentors been allowed to return to Athena? Fourth, how is it determined that they, or any other student there, has been rehabilitated? Fifth, if a student gets to return to a general school population, is it possible they can get returned to the re-engagement center if they "misbehave" again? Sixth, what do these essays and photos have to do with these students learning appropriate behavior? Isn't it possible that the words on a page don't match the thoughts in the individual's mind??

Anonymous said...

Sometimes one picture is worth a thousand words or thoughts. Some HUMANS are better able to connect through this medium than the spoken word itself.

SCATS said...

To 10:12AM ~~ Perhaps so. But the point that I'm after is that while such an exhibit is nice, how does it show us that this Re-engagement Center has made progress with the students placed there? If there is no way to measure their progress, we will never know if they are ready to move on.

SCATS said...

Let the record show that while Mr. Gartz chose to use his family & friends to pull a gang attack on me on the invitation page on FB for this event, he FAILED to answer any of the questions I asked, even the most basic ones like number enrolled. Now we're supposed to believe that he can "help"! He is not a GCSD employee, but he sure does act like one.

Anonymous said...

Scats as you should recall 11:54's concerns were five of the concerns that were
addressed in the Selke proposal. There were others and all were addressed and
fixes put in place to address all of them with minimal related costs. In fact,
most of them would have been paid with State reimbursement if included in a
capital improvement plan. As you will remember, these issues concerned placing
the lights at the existing OHS athletic field at that time. It's important to note
that any new proposal by this group adopted by the district would qualify for
State Aid as part of a
CIP which would need voter approval . In my opinion, that would be the proper
place for a voter referendum on this topic as opposed to the comments of a few
on this site and would be representative of the will of the majority in Greece.

SCATS said...

Well Joe, in reality Selke NEVER HAD A PLAN! What he referred to as his "plan" was a bunch of notes scribbled out on a wad of papers! There was nothing concrete, nothing organized enough for anyone to proceed with.

As you will remember, the attempt to slide through a "yes' vote by the BOE for putting lights on the field at Olympia followed on the tails of the Apollo neighbors telling them "HELL NO!" in their backyards. And yes, it was an underhanded attempt to get approval when they thought people weren't watching. The neighborhood groups were, and they opposed it from the gitgo.

I do agree that a vote by the community is proper, but it should be a separate vote with proper mailings TO ALL residents, not tied into anything else. I do not believe it will ever pass such a vote.

Anonymous said...

4-10 9:37 Just read your post. All very good questions. Some have obvious answers,
others lay deep in the psyche of the person known only as Scats. Therefore, this person would not consciously be able to answer some. However, if you take the time to do research into the archives going back to 06, a telling picture of the
personality of Scats evolves and takes shape. You will find early on, quite conservative in tone and demeanor with an early commitment to sharing
information and comments aimed at making a personal commitment to point out short comings with our local Town and GCSD Officials and employees and bring
about positive change by use of this site. Unfortunately, after overwhelming other
sites operating in the town, and a larger following, the darker side took control of reason and this site has become an extension of the ID of Scats and
is projected in verse and tone, to the detriment of its earlier mission to bring
about positive change, into a negative illusion of infallibility complete with insults and demeaning sniping at those who challenge his or her absolutism on any and all topics.

Anonymous said...

Scats... I looked through all the comments on this thread and couldn't find a single one from anyone named "Joe." Did I miss something?

SCATS said...

To 3:34PM ~~ OMG!! LMAO!!!

Is that you, Dr. Phil? Don't you know, you need a license to practice being a shrink in NY State?

At the beginning, I wasn't sure what to make of your rant. Then I got to the part that says: "after overwhelming other sites operating in the town, and a larger following" ... At this point, I couldn't help but begin laughing uncontrollably!!

Please tell me WHAT site/s had a "larger following"??

Please tell me WHAT other sites I "overwhelmed"??

It certainly wasn't Cagwin's pathetic attempt to provide a forum! I wasn't permitted to post there unless I gave my name!

It couldn't have been the D&C's "Greece BLOG" because after they "fired" the space case for plagiarism, people stopped reading & commenting over time.

It couldn't have been the space case's own attempt at blogging, because most of her comments (and characters) were self-written!

So WHO did I "overwhelm"?? LMAO

Just an FYI ~ SCATS recorded it's 750,000 pageview last week. And that number only represents for a portion of the 6+ years ;)

Anonymous said...

3:34 pm sounds like he ate a huge helping of sour grapes.

Anonymous said...

Scats, you were just called a loser for winning the blog wars. How ironic!

SCATS said...

To 9:29PM ~~ I seriously doubt that 3:34PM is one of the other Bloggers. Or did I forget someone in my listing??

To 10:37PM ~~ Interesting point! Even more interesting given that this thread is about "sports." lol

Anonymous said...

This topic DOES need to get back to the stadium construction, but first I want to answer one of SCATS questions to Ed.

~"First, who in their right mind thinks that normal people can attend at that hour of the day?"~

While "normal" people may not be able to attend, YOU should be able to get over there. Since most of your posts happen during the "normal" workday, you obviously are not working. If you are working,I would like to address your statement about common core.

~"As a parent, I would consider opting my kids out only after I see their teachers show-up at MY workplace during my next performance evaluation and try to convince MY employer to not hold me accountable for what I've done, or not done related to that evaluation!"~

Unless your job is to be a miserable person, I don't think your employer would approve of you using company time to run a blog.

Now, please refer all future posts in this section back to the stadium construction.

SCATS said...

To 8:08PM ~~ Since you aren't Ed, you aren't capable of responding from HIS perspective, which is what I sought.

As for what you believe about my employment, or lack thereof, have you ever heard of shift work? How about rotations? How about split shifts? How about self-employment? How about family-run businesses? How about work-from-home? Or maybe I work part-time ... hmmm ... the list of possibilities about my employment status and availability to BLOG goes on & on & on, doesn't it?

Back to Ed ... Ed posted an invitation to his daytime event on my Facebook timeline, on this BLOG & then sent an individual invitation as well. All three items stated the EXACT same things. All were public postings. So my comment about the availability of "normal people" to attend was directed at whether or not he was hoping that those with 8-5 day jobs would be able to attend, not me specifically. Capisce?

By the way, you don't run or direct the conversation here. I do :)