Tuesday, June 19, 2012

BOE Lawyers Fight COMIDA Plan @Mall

Greece Central School District could lose $6 million if  mall plan freezes assessed value at its current $92 million and a PILOT payment increased by just  .6 percent annually for the next quarter-century.

“What’s the cost to the school district if the mall declines like Irondequoit Mall did in a matter of 14 years, or what’s the cost to the school district if the mall empties out due to competitive pressures both to the west and east?” ~~ Dennis Wilot, Wilmorite Group

“...having a mall in decline is not in the best interest of the overall economic health of our community for the long term. Without the mall's vitality and ability to draw customers, the other businesses on West Ridge Road will suffer.” ~~ John Auberger


SCATS ~~ So Auberger is OK with making the taxpayers eat this? Nice of him!


Anonymous said...

If Wilmorit wants to improve the mall do it on their dime not mine. Irondequoit Mall went out of business because it was poorly managed. They allowed all the riff raff to run wild there and the town of Irodnequoit did not get the police involved early in mall's opening to run the same riff raff out permenently! Wilmorite should not get a dime in taxpayer money. Not one dime!

Anonymous said...

I understand the concern that a Mall that is in decline is not in the long range benefit of anyone, but is it fair for the town to reduce the school tax base when the school has no way to recover the tax? Seems like the town should only be able to shift their tax base. The taxpayers can always vote the town government out if WE don't like it.

Tom Kackmeister said...

The COMIDA lawyer offered to answer sumitted questions at today's COMIDA board meeting. I have my doubts but offered the following?

(If you have any questions, I suggest you pass them on to Michael Townsend
mtownsend@harrisbeach.com )

Attn: Michael Townsend as representative for COMIDA

Re: Your offer to answer question at today’s COMIDA meeting: I offer the following:

1. Would you please read these questions and your answers into the record of day’s meeting?

2. Do you intend to meet with the School districts representatives before you make a final decision on the Greece Mall PILOT application? If yes please provide specifics.

3. How do you intend to take into account the concerns of the Greece School district prior to making a final decision?

4. Do you have any hard data to support the assumption that this Mall project would not proceed without this or any other PILOT project? If you do, will you share that information with the public.

5. Has any other affected taxing entity provided an independent analysis of the PIOOT proposal?

6. Do you have any evidence this PILOT program should be supported by all the Mall properties?

7. Do you plan any public meeting in Greece where you will be more forthcoming with the many assumptions that have gone into your support for this proposal?

8. I now understand the basis for the Greece School Districts conclusion re: this PILOT project. Do you have any intent to be as forthcoming with the many assumptions and related data that justify your support for this application?

8. Do you have any public meeting planned that will permit questions by the public?

Thank you in advance for your attention to these questions and please forward a copy of these questions to Judy Seil COMUIDA Executive Director.

Tom Kackmestier

SCATS said...

I think the problems at Greece Ridge Mall stem back to combining the two malls into one mega-complex: HAS THE COMBINED MALL EVER PERFORMED TO EXPECTATION? I think not! I can't recall a time when most or all store fronts were filled, or when there weren't 35 shoe stores.

In my opinion, security at the mall should be WILMORITE'S PROBLEM ... A BUSINESS EXPENSE. It shouldn't be something the GPD does at the cost to Greece taxpayers.

If they need a PILOT for the entire mall to get one small area refurbished, then I'd say this is THE SIGNAL that it's time to move out of Greece! Last one out, turn off the lights.

Anonymous said...

.7:57 don't make me laugh. This is Greece, the home of the sheep. We just love getting sheared by our elected officials. we just grow another coat and come back for more

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry but things that work at Eastwiew Mall will never work in Greece The simple fact that supports this view is the class of people living in Victor, Penfield, Perinton,Fairport that patronize that mall are higher class then Greece residents. They also do not have the ethnic problems that killed Irondeqouit Mall and is slowly killing Greece Ridge. Wilmorite knows this but needs the tax breaks to expand and abandon Greece Ridge as they did with Irodeqouit Mall I Victor if you build it they will come. However, If you build it they will still come,The big difference in the Case with Greece, the operative word is WHO will come.

This is nothing more that a short term money grab with long term implication.Just ask the official s in Irondeqoiuit.

Anonymous said...

GPD does not provide security at the mall, Wilmorite operates it's own security operation. The only time GPD is involved is when thet are called to assist mall security with an arrest or any event the constitutes a Theat to public safety, like numerous fights and disturbances that take place especially on weekend evenings.
At one time, I believe GPD planned to open an office in the food court but it never happened.
All the ingredient s that killed Irondeqouit are in place at Greece Ridge, It's only a matter of time before this mall suffers the same fate One thing is for sure, it won't take 26 years until it happens

SCATS said...

To 2:19PM ~~ GPD does provide SOME of the security at the mall. It is my understanding that at least one officer, or possibly two, is assigned there daily, more during the holidays.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Republicans -- where are you on this issue? We keep hearing your lip service about how government should be smaller, handouts should be eliminated, and then... when one of your fat cat friends is in line to line their pockets with our taxpayer dollars, everything is right with the world.

Don't give us any BS about job creation. If business is bad, these low-pay retail jobs will fold up and disappear in a heartbeat, regardless of what is promised.

Republican Party, show some backbone and stand up for the TAXPAYERS.

Anonymous said...

To 2:19 the police do have an office in the food court and have for over a year. I am a regular at the mall and work there. I have not seen the numerous fights on weekend nights you speak of. There is a curfew starting on weekend which has helped a lot. The police have at least 1 officer assigned to the mall every day. I'm not sure where you got your info?!?!

Charlie Hubbard said...

comida = County of Monmoe INDUSTRIAL development assoc.

We had better give some serious thought about this organization getting involved in making the call on the 'winners' and 'losers' of the RETAIL segment of our economy.
Do we want(some)restaurants being subsidized by the taxpayers?

We should never forget a tax 'reduction' for one comes about as a tax 'increase' for the others.

Anonymous said...

There is a GPD satellite station next to Dunkin Donuts ha the logo and one way tinted glass!

Anonymous said...

2:23 So the mall is just like one of the high schools?

SCATS said...

To 4:27PM ~~ Not exactly. My understanding is that mall officers are there on regular assignment but as SRO's in the schools, Greece cops "volunteer" and get overtime pay for putting in a few hours before their regular assignment. Nice deal for the mall, eh?

Anonymous said...

Greece cops need to volunteer in the schools, because the so-called security guards are a total waste of money. They don't do a thing, especially the head of security at Arcadia high school. The only thing he seems to do is sit in the cafeteria and eat..........

SCATS said...

To 5:17PM ~~ To be clear, the cops do get paid OT to be in the schools. The "voluntary" portion is that those who are interested in the assignment step up to do it.

george hubbard said...

Jun 19, 2012

Re: COMIDA agreement as revised Jun/2012.

1. The projected impact of the revised COMIDA – Greece Towne Mall agreement can be estimated by comparing the expected total dollars as would be collected by GCSD over the life of the COMIDA agreement (25 yrs currently). This can be done for various assumed rates of growth for future GCSD tax rates.

2. While no one can know for certain what the future holds, here are two scenarios that seem relevant/reasonable for comparison to the COMIDA proposed annual increase for PILOT (Payment-In-Lieu Of Taxes) payments.

3. First, the GCSD TAX RATE increase from this year (2012/13) to next year (2013/14) is 2.3%. Looking over several years of data, 2.3% is not out of the ordinary for GCSD. Assuming a 2.3% increase continues annually for the next 25 yrs, see Col B below.

4. Second, the calculated average GCSD TAX RATE increase over the past 14 yrs is 1.8% per year. Nothing significant about 14 yrs – I wanted at least 10 yrs, and found 14 easily. See Col C below.

5. The proposed PILOT INCREASE in COMIDA agreement is 0.6% per year. See Col D below.

6a. Column A identifies the school year for which the calculations apply.

6b. The tax payment of $2.103M for 2012/13 is the scheduled PILOT payment specified in the COMIDA agreement. This is before the 0.6% annual increase goes into affect. It is used as the base case starting point, common to all three scenarios going forward for 25 yrs.

7. Summary Table:

SCH YR_____2.3%_____1.8%_____0.6%_

2012/13__$2.103M__$2.103M__$2.103M_BASE YEAR

2013/14__$2.151M__$2.140M__$2.115M_YR #1
2014/15__$2.200M__$2.179M__$2.128M_YR #2
2015/16__$2.251M__$2.218M__$2.141M_YR #3

2037/38__$3.713M__$3.285M__$2.442M_YEAR #25

8. Conclusion#1: If GCSD tax rate increases for the next 25 yrs track the recent average of 1.8%, then total Mall PILOT payments can be estimated to fall short by $10M ($69M - $59M) – this to be made up by other taxpayers.

9. Conclusion#2: If future GCSD tax rates increase on average about 2.3% per year, then total Mall PILOT payments can be estimated to fall short by $14M+ ($73.7M - $59M).

Comments and corrections invited. Check my math please.

George Hubbard.

Anonymous said...

Greece cops in the schools are therein the capacity of school resource officers. Thet are not there for security purposes.Enforcement of school rules and regulation are the job of the paid district security staff. In an emergency situation they will assist security personnel . It's my understanding that if the volunteer officer gets involved and is forced to use physical force, an arrest must be made. The volunteer officer will make what the cops refer to as a turn over arrest a process in which the volunteer officer makes the arrest and calls for an on duty officer to take the person involved into custody .A Greece cop told me this was the process dictated by department policy.?????

SCATS said...

To 7:07PM ~~ Interesting. Anyone??

Anonymous said...

It costs the district about 100,000 a year to have acop in school

SCATS said...

To 9:03PM ~~ Wrong. Back when they reinstated the SRO's (2010, I think it was) they said the cost was $125,000 for SRO's at the high schools plus Apollo.