Sunday, June 12, 2011

Speaking With Forked Tongues: SOC Yin & Yan

 
    Selfish, Self-Serving, Self-Centered ...

"Schools of choice don't cost more" ... "It's too expensive to offer all K-5 elementary schools."

"Don't fix what's not broken, fix what is" ... "Retaining schools-of-choice ensures the broken schools remain broken with higher numbers of minority/special ed students and students on free/reduced lunches, etc."

"SOC's are no better than the other schools" ... "Why do you want to close "the best schools" in the district?"

"You need to take what's working and do it at other schools" ... "You'll ruin Odyssey if you try to expand the program at Apollo!"

"SOCs are successful because of  involved parents" ... "The K-2/3-5 & 6-8/9/12 structure does not foster parental support, so I want choice."

"I don't see the opposition, where are they?" ... "SOCs are consistently the #1 district issue cited on exit polls and has been for many years."

"Why make a hasty decision when you need to gather more data?" ... "SOCs have been hotly debated for 20 yrs. and studied for nearly the last three years!"

"There are over 1400 students on SOC wait lists" ... "Is there anyone waiting to go to Parkland, Buckman Hts or Olympia HS? Has there ever been? Why not?"

"Our children deserve emotional, educational, financial and moral decisions & support" ... "ALL Greece children deserve emotional, educational, financial and moral decisions & support."

"Eliminating the sibling rule will split up my family" ... "Retaining K-2/3-5 & 6-8/9-12 school structure splits up my family."

"Odyssey lacks football, a pool, electives, etc" ... "Odyssey offers IB, smaller classes, safety and supportive staff/parents."

"You'll waste money sending more buses if you eliminate the sibling rule" ... "You're wasting more money sending extra buses with a split-up elementary school configuration."

"All schools have a sibling rule" ... "Only SOCs require a single lottery win that lasts at least 6 -7 years."

Schools-of-choice
provide no benefit
TO THE DISTRICT !

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, this is the most entertaining post you've ever out up. The reality is that your post is a sad truth from that crowd. Self centered people will say anything to keep something to themselves.

Anonymous said...

"SOCs are consistently the #1 district issue cited on exit polls and has been for many years."

And what percentage of the voters actually participate in the exit polls?

Anonymous said...

Love It!

SCATS said...

To 9:20AM ~~ Does it matter? They showed up to vote and TOOK THE TIME to complete the survey. Their voices should count and be heard.

Anonymous said...

SCATS, this sounds like a reenactment of the one-sided 'hearing' for the SOC people last week. You really captured the flavor of the whining. 'Me' 'Me' 'Me' 'Me'

Anonymous said...

2:01 Give up the SOC special interests are the loudest whiners in the district. Selfish does not even describe many of them. They could care less about under served and over crowded schools as long as they get the private education on the GCSD tax dime.

SCATS said...

To 2:58PM ~~ One improvement is that this time none of them actually said they liked getting a private education at the expense of other students and out of the pockets of all taxpayers. In December, they just couldn't bite their tongue on that issue. They enjoy gloating ;)

Anonymous said...

Public school tax money is for the education of ALL the children. For the parents who believe that their kids should be treated better than everyone elses kids, let them spend their own money on tuition to a charter school or private school.
All these people in this town seem to have such a sense of entitlement when it comes to schools of choice.

Anonymous said...

"To 9:20AM ~~ Does it matter? They showed up to vote and TOOK THE TIME to complete the survey. Their voices should count and be heard."

It does matter. In one breath you argue that district decisions shouldn't be influenced by the opinions of the privileged few who constitute SOC parents and who made their voices heard, but then you seem to believe that district decision should be dictated by the disgruntled few who fill out the survey and cite it as an issue for them. Welcome to America - if you don't have the votes to back your view, you have to live with the decisions that get made until you do. ;)

"We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." Thomas Jefferson

Anonymous said...

loved how someone used our schools with the highest rates of poverty to justify SOC, when SOC actually help to concentrate poverty in non-schools of choice! SAD!

SOC should reflect the demographics of the District! 38% KIDS ON FREE/REDUCED LUNCH- not 11%, 24% or 16%!!!!!

What is best for the community IS WHAT IS BEST FOR MY KIDS- SOC are not helping the community!

SCATS said...

To 4:10PM ~~ You know what? I'm pretty sure the number of "disgruntled" is larger, likely MUCH LARGER than the actual voters who showed up at the hearing last week. There were people there with 1-4 kids in tow. I'm sorry, but the minors who do not pay taxes & can not vote aren't part of the voice the BOE ought to be considering. Neither are the employees who don't live in GCSD's territory ;)

Anonymous said...

SCATS - since the disgruntled masses seem to be staying at home rather than participating in the process or voting (in the numbers you seem to think are out there) how "disgruntled" are they?

And I don't buy the argument that they don't want to participate in the forums or public hearings because they'll be targeted by the scary SOC families. There were a few folks who expressed their opinions against SOCs at the SOC Forum and I don't remember reading about their cars being burned in the parking lot or their lives being threatened afterward. ;)

Anonymous said...

How did your kid get into Odyssey? Choice benefited you didn't it scats? now you are against it! what a hypocrite you truly are.

SCATS said...

To 6:17PM ~~ How quickly you forget! The "disgruntled masses" turned out to defeat the 2010 budget by a vote of 4546 ~ No and
2824 ~ Yes. Frank Oberg told the press: "We got a lot of feedback, in the form of the exit polls."

You've ignored the FACT that half the "participants" at the phony hearing were people who can't/don't vote or pay taxes. Like I said, the digruntled masses outnumber the chosen few. Ask the 1400 sitting on waiting lists for something most will never "win."

Anonymous said...

"There were people there with 1-4 kids in tow. I'm sorry, but the minors who do not pay taxes & can not vote aren't part of the voice the BOE ought to be considering."

Wow SCATS, I don't even know where to start with this one. Last time I checked, education was supposed to be about the children, not the adults, isn't that what you usually harp on? And why are the views of a family, where the parent(s) is/are TAXPAYERS, any less relevant that the views of any other taxpayer?

Anonymous said...

To 4:10, SOC as they are currently run ARE IMMORAL!!!! One person speaking the truth even against thousands is still speaking the truth!!!

SCATS said...

To 8:34PM ~~ You are correct, Education is SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THE CHILDREN, not about the helicopter parents who cry, beg, manipulate, stomp their feet and make a scene.

Last I knew, it was the adults job to make decisions for the kids, but that's an antiquated notion for those who let their children rule the roost. The sense of entitlement was clear when the tots spoke to the press, too. No wonder we need a 37 pg. discipline code, but I digress.

THE SCHOOL CHOICE DECISION SHOULD NOT BE BASED ON THE ANTICS OF THOSE WHO CAN"T FUND IT OR VOTE. Period.

SCATS said...

By the way 8:34PM & Others ~~I'll refer you back to the orig. statement made by 4:10PM which was: "Welcome to America - if you don't have the votes to back your view, you have to live with the decisions that get made until you do."

Given that, the voices of the children & out of district family members, employees, etc. do NOT matter :)

Anonymous said...

Scool of choice parents want their cake and want to eat it too. Guess what? The jig is up. Like they say, payback is a b*tch and payback is about to arrive. I can't wait until Odyssey moves to Apollo and the waiting list disappears after they have to let in the dark skin kids. Now that's equity!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"There were a few folks who expressed their opinions against SOCs at the SOC Forum"

None that I heard. When did they speak? Who were they? What did they say?

Anonymous said...

12:34, unfortunately for you (and probably your offspring as well), you are about to learn that just because a special interest group at a meeting is larger or louder, it doesn't stop what is inevitable. Ask yourself why this meeting took place to begin with. I don't know that this boe has the spine to fix it now or not, but at some point soon, it will be changed. Exit polls, audits, studies, blogs, school taxes, ect., there all pointing at this giant pink elephant in our district as being a problem. If the people who oppose this system actually decided to take time to show up at a meeting, the Blue Cross Arena wouldn't be enough room. But they don't need to speak at these meetings. Common sense is what created the meeting to begin with. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

20 years of community debate.

Several years of study by district office and the school board.

2 public hearings.

Numerous budget defeats.

Loads of lipservice for the "chosen."

Not even one logical reason remains for continuing with this nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Let me start by saying I think the SOC format should be ended and Odyssey shold be closed altogether.

Now that I have that out of the way. Won't you all be surprised once the BOE finally decides to do something, that it will have vitrually no impact on your/my taxes.

Year one after SOC ends - district saves a total of $140,000 local tax dollars from lower transportation costs.

Year one after OA closes - I would have to guess this would be a wash. Savings from Bulding Maintenance balanced by addiitonal costs to relocate students and staff. I have serious doubts if the number of teachers would change radically.

I say these things not to suggest that we should not end SOC and close OA, but to suggest that the windfall of savings will most likely never appear unless and until there is a complete restructure of the entire district.

SCATS said...

To 3:19PM ~~ Of course I won't be surprised. Efficiency isn't their strong suit. Restructuring can't be done all at once without lots of backpedalling, so starting with SOCs makes sense since those students must be reabsorbed.

Anonymous said...

The biggest benefit of ending SOC choice isn't financial (I realize they'll find somewhere else to blow the money). I think the best part will be bringing neighborhoods back together. There are kids 15 houses away from my home, and my kids only know their names. Really sad.

Anonymous said...

Scats @ 3:41

If you end SOC's and reabsorb kids to home schools, and then restructure, you run the risk of:
a. Moving kids twice
b. Never restructuring because it is "too difficult" or "doesn't offer sufficient savings"

One should not be done without the other and BOTH should be done immediately.

I have come to belive that K-5 neighborhood schools and 3 Middle/3high schools is the most efficient way to run this district.

Anything short of that will cause more harm than doing nothing. Imagine what the SOC crowd would do if they ended SOC's and no significant savings materialized.

- 3:19pm

SCATS said...

To 4:11PM ~~ I agree about the money aspect. I've seen kids around my neighborhood who don't know each other just a couple homes apart. Between all of "choices" and parochial schools, home schooled students, private school students ... few of them spend any time with each other.

To 4:49PM ~~ Given the inept folks in charge, the risks will be many. The greatest benefit to ending SOCs is in bringing BALANCE to the other schools in the form of dispersing the white middle class kids of the helicopter parents. Maybe Apollo & other schools will never again spend several years on the state's "needs to improve list" or maybe Olympia will have some parents DEMANDING equal attention be paid to the deteriorating facilities, etc. in that location.

Anonymous said...

If you get rid of signature schools, open enrollment, and secondary option wealth will be more and not less concentrated.

Do you think wealth in Greece is evenly distributed?

Wealthier families tend to live on the west side of Greece, less wealthy families live toward the east. Less choice will simply tend to concentrate those groups.

Anonymous said...

3:19 - I like your thinking! Please keep the pressure on to make BOTH changes. We need them both.

SCATS said...

To 7:57PM ~~ Who said this was about wealth? Or that wealth was the only consideration? Not all minority families get free/reduced lunches. It's amazing how prejudiced and truly blind people in this community really are.

Anonymous said...

Scats,

You and your readers said wealth is one of the major issues with SOC. I often read, on this blog, descriptions of the inequities of SOC based of the free/reduced lunch statistics in schools. I was simply stating that ending SOC would have the effect of concentrating wealth in fewer schools.
Do you really think that PineBrook as a neighborhood school would have a significantly different free/reduced lunch count? Do you think the free/reduced lunch count at Patkland or Lakeshore would increase or decrease?

My comments had nothing to do with race. Just a statement on the economic factors that opponents of SOC use to call them unfair.

SCATS said...

To 6:54AM ~~ I've never said that wealth was at the tp of the list. Yes, it's an issue. Yes, it's a major one. I think the BIGGEST ISSUE IN GCSD IS THE BASIC INEQUITY BETWEEN SCHOOLS that makes getting the SAME BASIC EDUCATION AT ALL OF THEM so difficult to come by.

Every school should have THE SAME CURRICULUM, THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES, THE SAME EXTRAS. It should NOT matter where you live in Greece as to what you might get to study. It's our BOE's job to provide that equity and to do so with an eye to ensuring that discrimination based upon wealth, race, sex, religion, etc. isn't a factor.

Anonymous said...

So what is "the basic inequity between schools?"

What is better at SOC than other schools?

SCATS said...

To 11:31AM ~~ If you just signed onto this discussion a few hours before the BOE vote, then I'm going to let you read through the history of this conversation in the archives of the BLOG. It's in there ;)

Anonymous said...

sorry. seemed like easy questions for you to answer. unfortunately I don't have hours to look through past blog entries to divine your meaning.

thanks for your help.

SCATS said...

To 12:20PM ~~ I'm glad I didn't waste my time with someone who really wasn't all that interested.

Anonymous said...

What a wonderful welcome to what might have been a regular reader.

And you call SOC families "selfish, self-serving, and self-centered."

I was just wondering what you feel is superior about SOC, and what, other than wealth, created the inequities.
I thought is was a relatively simple question, but apparently you would rather push away an interested person.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone think there will be discussion tonight, or will they just vote yea or nay and move on? Recent board of ed meetings are looking more like town board meetings all the time. Maybe Oberg has bigger aspirations?

Anonymous said...

11:31: Odyssey people whine that their school only offers 1 foreign language, can't have football, has no pool and a bunch of other stuff. Some high schools offer certain classes at only their location. There's probably many dozens of examples.

Anonymous said...

Tonight O'Rourke will discover his time in GCSD has been wasted. He's gotten a paycheck for accomplishing nothing. They're only voting because he's pushed them into it. Everytime it sounds like the board needs to do something, they ask him how and he tells them it's their problem to decide. No guts. No glory. Just more dysfunction.

SCATS said...

To 3:44PM ~~ Well said. I agree 100%.

Anonymous said...

Odyssey has a low free and reduced luch percent because they have less students to account for, Newtions Theory Of Large Numbers!
SCATS tries to fool you, when she is fooling herself.

Anonymous said...

12:52 The answer is secret union concessions.

SCATS said...

To 7:41PM ~~ Who am I to try to take on "Newtions Theory"?

I don't need to fool anyone. I'm surrounded by them ... as you've just shown ;)

SCATS said...

To 7:44PM ~~ Thank you for bringing that up. It's something I haven't heard mentioned by any of "the chosen ones" during the phony hearing. Did you?

Anonymous said...

Must be 7:41 gets to sit in on the lottery drawing for Odyssey, and knows it's not rigged. Hey 7:41 could you pull some strings so that the rest of us can come and see the legit drawing of the chosen? Then we can all "know" why all the kids that get in look alike.