Sunday, September 19, 2010

39 Greece Teachers Grab Generous Retirement Package In 2009

  
Only 11 Greece teachers retired during the 2008-09 school year, according to D&C Story

"Offering the incentive did help us.We were able to hire back some of the teachers who would have been laid off." ~~ Laurel Heiden, spokesperson for the Greece Central School District

SCATS ~~ But did they retire "for the kids?"


53 comments:

Anonymous said...

Doesn't she mean that GCSD was able to RETAIN some teachers who would have been laid off? To rehire means that the teacher was laid off?

SCATS said...

To 10:43AM ~~ Are you trying to hold a Greece Central employee accountable for what they say or do? Don't you know, there is no such thing as accountability in GCSD, most especially not from a "spokesperson? "

Anonymous said...

she doesn't live in Greece, what does she
care?

Anonymous said...

how about a residency requirement for
all DO employees, not just the Super?

SCATS said...

To 6:46PM ~~ Let's make that inclusive of teachers, too. Do you know how many of them live outside of Greece? Sadly, I've overheard conversations where a teacher has stated emphatically that they would NEVER send their own kids to a Greece school. But they have no problem collecting a paycheck or raising our taxes.

Anonymous said...

Residency requirements are difficult to apply and enforce.
They sound good but may not be fair in all circumstances.

what if a techer is married. The spose has a job in the far eastern part of the county. Moving here could be a burden.
a teacher may have an established home somewhere else, and get a job in Greece. They may not be able to move without economic and personal sacrifces thsat we would not ask of others. Would you sell your house at say a $30,000-50,000 loss for a job in Greece?

Anonymous said...

SCATS: This can and should be done.
Transparency, accountability, and investment in service
provision & delivery would likely increase.
Maybe not overnight, but eventually.

Employees would be more likely
to achieve more for the greater good
within this Town if they knew their checks
were being cut here every two weeks.
Heck, you might even see some of that
Greece pride restored.
that Greece Central pride restored.

SCATS said...

To 7:16PM~~ It would be THEIR CHOICE to move here & take our generous salary/benefits package, or not.

They are only as difficult as you want to make 'em ;)

SCATS said...

To 7:19PM ~~ I think we're on the same page :)

Anonymous said...

7:19 - do you live in the community where you collect your paycheck? No? Please move, then. Thanks.

SCATS said...

To 9:51PM ~~ Unless 7:19 is a public employee of some sort, your argument is invalid, since his/her paycheck doesn't come from the taxpayer's pocket. Teachers who come to Greece to work, get our generous benefit packages, but then refuse to become individually invested in the community are showing their true (union t-shirt) colors ;)

Anonymous said...

7:19 are you an out of town GCSD
employee who feels trepidation at the
mere thought of a residency requirement
someday becoming policy? If so, good.

Anonymous said...

More money comes from state sources than local (community) sources. A community residency requirement excludes candidates who have paid state taxes that support the local district.

SCATS said...

I believe that the residency requirement for teachers & administrators would be a great first step at ensuring our schools have teachers who are accountable. If their own kids have to survive the same system, it behooves them to do their best.

Anonymous said...

Childless (and empty nested) families deserve to make an income, too.

Residency requirements for filling municipal jobs are ancient relics based on the concept of "closed union shops" that should be overturned.

Limiting the pool from which one may draw in order to fill positions reduces open market competition for those positions.

"I pay NYS taxes". "I have no children." "I am not a resident of the local community." "I am not a resident of the county." "I am the best candidate for the job." "I have a track record of making a positive difference wherever I am employed." "I am excluded from consideration."

What a loss for "you", too.

Anonymous said...

From all of my experiences with GCSD, when they say something that isn't true or something that needs to be corrected or clarified, the standard answer is "that is not what it means. In order to get any residency requirement it would have to be negotiated in the contract. What are you willing to give up for that? You can't say nothing. I am looking for a thoughtful answer, not the same rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

To 10:42 Today GCSD is far more in need of
a regained sense of pride than sustained streams of
revenue . Without the former, the
latter means little. Until personal agendas
go by the wayside, one can have all
the $ in the world yet make little
sustained & measurable progress toward
improvement.

Anonymous said...

10:42-
Yes some money comes from state taxes and some from local. How about a compromise? The 180 school days money comes from town taxes, the other days com from state....

Anonymous said...

This idea is just not feasible no matter how appealing.

SCATS said...

To 5:38AM ~~ I'm thinking teachers unions in this ongoing economy which may not let up any time soon (maybe not for years) are also "an ancient relic" that should be eliminated. The reality is that union workers can no longer be supported as in the past. GCSD seems to have NO TROUBLE attracting plenty of candidates! We live in area saturated by colleges that churn out a good number of teachers every year. I don't think we're going to end up with any real "loss."

SCATS said...

To 9:45AM ~~ Which idea? Retirement incentives?

Anonymous said...

9:20 There are those in the non-profit sector who work equally as hard or harder than as our civil servants here in Greece. Yet their benefits and salaries pale in comparison.

The citizens of Greece should not have to "give" or negotiate ANYTHING. We are already giving PLENTY.

Anonymous said...

I'm sad to see once again SCATS express these anti-union sentiments.

Why don;t we all just get in our wheelbarrows and have a race to the bottom.

These bad times are not the result of union wages.but of corporate polices and huge unjustifiable profits.

You attack the wro0ng enemy. The real culprits are laughing at you all the way to the bank while you eat your own. Don't scapegoat other wage earners for an economic crisis they did not cause.

Anonymous said...

To 9:45 AM That's what Thomas Edison heard from family, friends, and the general public until his light bulb went on.

SCATS said...

To 10:40AM ~~ Need a tissue? Please don't forget to shed a few tears for General Motors while you blame SCATS for the demise of our country.

Anonymous said...

Hey SCATS,

Would you mind conducting a quick poll on support versus opposition regarding a residency requirement here in GCSD?

SCATS said...

To 10:45AM ~~ That's an excellent idea! Thank you :)

Anonymous said...

Looks like the union is busy voting in your poll instead of teaching the kiddies this afternoon, SCATS. Is it "for the kids?"

Anonymous said...

Residency requirement - teacher A has children in District A (not Greece). She lands a job in Greece and, because of residency requirement, moves to Greece and uproots her children to transfer them into Greece schools. 5 years later she accepts a job as a teacher or administrator with District B which has followed Greece's lead and has a residency requirement. Children are uprooted again to enroll in District B. 3 years later she accepts a promotional opportunity in District C which also has a residency requirement so kids are uprooted AGAIN. Yeah, this makes perfect f'ing sense. You people need your heads examined. YOU live in Greece and don't support the school system. Assuming that residency somehow translates to accountability and loyalty or whatever is ludicrous. Accountability expectations ensures accountability regardless of where one lives. Sorry, Scats, but you're waaaay off base on this one.

SCATS said...

To 6:40PM ~~ From your example alone it's pretty obvious that Teacher A has no problem putting his/her own selfish interests above his/her own children's welfare as well as the welfare of the students he/she teaches. Any teacher worth their salary recognizes that consistency and stability have positive impacts on education/learning. If they don't like the residency requirement, let them go elsewhere. It's REALLY that simple. I suspect we won't be hurting for teachers ;)

Anonymous said...

6:40...wow, SCATS really seems to have
struck a nerve. A lot of heat coming off
the LCD screen. I wonder where you live,
and why this idea is that provocative
to evoke such an emotional response.

SCATS is dead right on this one, and
it's scaring the living hell out of people
who will for once have to really prove they
want to work in this district.

Anonymous said...

SCATS
You have been nibbling a bit too much on the catnip on this isssue.

In the world as it is currently structured we often have to transfer jobs. Few people are able stay in one job or work for one employer all their lives.

Nor is wanting to get ahead necessarily at odds with family. It could mean the ability to send
your kid to college have some important oppotunity or to do good for more people. It really depends on the person and the situation.
In this case it is your hypothetical residency rule that causes the difficulty. Without it the hypothetical teacher does not have to move and uproot her family.

Residency is just not a feasible alternative in the world as we live it. If you think that world should be changed perhaps there is a point but asking folks in the current situation to be residents just won't work

SCATS said...

To 7:47PM ~~ I know of no group of people who resist change, any change, more than teachers! But alas, that's what we get when we accept mediocre students into colleges and allow them to become future "educators" ... mediocrity spawns more of the same ;)

Anonymous said...

6:40 PM...Like him or loath him, our soon-to-be
Lt. Governor enacted a residency requirement
shortly after bein elected mayor. No one
accused him of being insane or unfair,
or even playing politics. The ones who
disagree with Duffy's policy simply don't
bother applying for city jobs. Now why would
this be ao ludicrous for Greece?

Anonymous said...

It's ludicrous for FAMILIES who will have to uproot children. I agree with SCATS that it's not educationally sound to do that. I disagree with SCATS when he/she says the parent puts her own selfish interests above that of her children by moving to jobs where there is more opportunity/money and, with it, a residency requirement. People often believe that the Supt should live in the district because he/she is helping to establish the tax rate and he/she should have to pay it. They assume this will keep it lower than if the Supt lived elsewhere. Remember, MOST school admins own homes and are paying taxes somewhere! It's a flawed argument. Also, some will say residency ensures community involvement. Really? Walts lived in the community - how many football games did you see him attend? It sounds great on paper...it just doesn't work out in real life. What we need to demand is accountability to families and students in areas such as achievement gains, graduation rate and successfully FINISHING college (not just GOING to college).

SCATS said...

To 8:03PM ~~ I think it's ludicrous that the preponderance of our teaching staff resides outside of Greece. Everyone knows there IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Requiring residency ensures they have a stake in doing their best job and that is what's best "for the kids."

Anonymous said...

to 7:41 pm


It doesn't scare me one bit because this idea of residency is a fallacy. It can not happen without it being negotiated. What are you, the tax payer, willing to give the teachers for it? I will take a nice raise for you to have your residence requirement. I will live in a nice, respectable upscale neighborhood and have my kids enrolled in GCSD. By golly I will also be in the upper socioeconomic tier and my kids will be going to SOC. Maybe even GCSD can come up with a K-12 building just for the children of the teachers in Greece:)

SCATS said...

Re: "Maybe even GCSD can come up with a K-12 building just for the children of the teachers in Greece:)"

You mean Odyssey & Pinebrook aren't good enough??

Anonymous said...

8:09 Unions are the biggest fallacy of
them all, as anyone with neurons still
firing will tell you. Unions are unaffordable
and impractical, given the state of our transient
workforce and volatile economy. Please
don't go there about "uprooting" children
and the psychological damage that may
result. Look at our miltary families and the REAL sacrifices
they make. (A teachable moment, perhaps?)
If "uprooting families" is your biggest fault with a residency
requirement, you may as well move anyway,
like out of the country. The private sector would
devour you.

Anonymous said...

More money comes to Greece from NYS taxes than from local taxes.

Local residency requirements would be unfair to those taxpayers.

There should be a law that says, "Restricting jobs to local residence will result in reduction or loss of state revenue."

Would you still think local residency is good for the kids, SCATS? Go ahead. After all...it's not about the money, right?

Anonymous said...

to 8:44
First, I am not a teacher. I do not even work for a school district. Secon, Unions are not a "fallacy" because they already exist. Third, why are you acting like the GCSD DO? You may seem smart but don't try to predict the future about what I might be thinking. I have never mentioned, nor will I mention that it may have any "psychological effect". It would be emotional but that is a part of life. Fourth - don't play "the military card". I may have been in the military. Have you? People go into the military. They go in there knowing ahead of time the consequences. They choose that life as do most people in "the real world". You make a point that the private sector will devour me. You seem bitter. Did you choose the wrong job? Did you get devoured? Come walk a day in my shoes. You can't do it. You wouldn't be able to handle my job. Believe me, my children are getting plenty of teachable moments. Right Scats?

Respectfully,
A Cup of Coffee...

Anonymous said...

People choose the military knowing the sacrifices they must make. I'm sure that husbands/wives discuss this reality before having children. Teaching doesn't inherently carry with it the reality that you might have to relocate with each job change to a different district. Yes, I DO believe uprooting families is a very real concern -- and one that should not be taken lightly.

Oh, and by the way,8:44 - I happen to be gainfully employed in a great job in the private sector. I checked this morning - I have all my limbs intact so I guess no devouring of me has occurred yet. I'll keep you posted as to the status of that, however. Don't hold your breath. On second thought.......

SCATS said...

To 5:48AM ~~ You forget that the local folk also pay the NY State taxes in addition to the local taxes, therefore the local folk are PAYING THE MOST and should have the most say :)

To 6:12AM ~~ For the record, most any emotional reaction has the potential for an associated psychological impact. Also, I don't know either you or your job, so I can't respond to your question about teachable moments, sorry.

To 6:17AM ~~ If residency requirements become established, teachers would then have prior knowledge about getting uprooted. What's the big deal? This is really starting to sound extremely whiny on the side of the teachers. But I'm not surprised ;)

Anonymous said...

What would the effect of a residence requirement have on the education provided in Greece schools? SCATS seems to think it would make teachers more accountable for their teaching if their students were in Greece schools. However, since it would be inappropriate for a teacher to have her/his own child in a class (accusations of favoritism and whatnot), I am not sure how residency would make teachers more accountable for providing a better education than they already do. I'm sure Greece teachers would continue to put the same high level of dedication and effort into their teaching that they do now whether their children were in some other classroom within the district or not.

SCATS said...

To 5:01PM ~~ Re: "However, since it would be inappropriate for a teacher to have her/his own child in a class (accusations of favoritism and whatnot), I am not sure how residency would make teachers more accountable for providing a better education than they already do."

Appropriateness never deterred GCSD employees from doing the immoral, the reprehnsible and the distasteful previously. Why would it now? Ever see a principal give his/her own kid an award? It happens all the time. Just ask Odyssey's principal ;) She's merely one example of several I'm personally aware of.

Anonymous said...

And you want to make it more common that teachers and administrators would be placed in such situations? Which is it? Are you for residency requirements or not?

SCATS said...

To 8:36PM ~~ It's a separate issue altogether. Regrdless of what happens with the residency issue, GCSD needs a policy stating that employees and their families are ineligible for awards, prizes, etc. just like most companies do.

Anonymous said...

Why should a student be ineligible for an award simply because his or her parent is a teacher or administrator in a school? That seems blatantly discriminatory.

So sorry son, you're the top student in your class but we can't recognize you because your mom teaches here...

SCATS said...

To 9:57PM ~~ Why? To prevent any appearance of impropriety, of course. I know that's a big word for a lot of "educators" but it is what is done in the private sector. If you work at Kodak, you can't win their pet photo competition, and neither can Becky nor Biff.

Anonymous said...

Obviously there is no residency requirement for city school teachers. If there were all the teachers in the city would be childless or grandparents. Who in their right mind with a college degree would send their child to a city of rochester school voluntarily? Maybe the same could be said for the Greece Schools. Most of those teachers live in surrounding suburbs. And if they do have kids in the greece schools they are part of the chosen at WR or PB or Odyssey or the ever elite low lunch subsidy athena.

SCATS said...

To 10:13AM ~~ Just as there are other laws governing specific aspects of city school districts (as opposed to suburban ones) for their budgets and school boards, this could also be accommodated similarly for any residency requirement. My argument is strictly about Greece, but it might become popular quickly :D

Anonymous said...

Impropriety is not a big word, although it may be for you ;) I congratulate you on spelling it correctly!

Discriminating against the children of teachers will have a negative impact on their future college careers. I could care less if Becky can't win the pet photo contest at Kodak. I do care if a lack of recognized achievements due to a parent's employment status reflects negatively on college applications.

SCATS said...

To 4:18PM ~~ It's not a big word for me, but I'm pretty sure that most of Greece's graduates don't usually know how to use it in a sentence, let alone spell it.

As far as discriminating against a teacher's kids is concerned, I don't believe for a second that failure to receive the "GCSD perfect attendance award" will negatively impact anyone's kid. If they want their kids to get into a decent college, let them attend private schools or earn TRUE ACADEMIC AWARDS like the AP scholars award ... they don't need the phony accolades of a district that names 1/3 of a school's graduates as valedictorians/salutatorians (Odyssey June 2010). Do you think those "honors" are actually fooling anyone?