Friday, August 06, 2010

Prayers @ Town Board Meeting Constitutional

  
The D&C reports:

U.S. District Judge Charles Siragusa ruled Thursday that the prayers at the board meeting are not unconstitutional ~~ “The Town did not begin having prayer at meetings in order to proselytize or advance any one, or to disparage any other, faith or belief … The Town’s prayer policy, to the extent that one exists, is to invite clergy from all denominations within the Town, without any guidance or restriction on the content of prayers. The Town will also permit anyone who volunteers to give an invocation, including atheists and members of non-Judeo-Christian religions such as Wicca, and has never denied a request by anyone to deliver a prayer.”

SCATS ~~ Please check out Auberger's involvement as one of the "heroes" of  http://www.prayinjesusname.org/ shown on the SCATSBLOG posting from Nov.2009.



  

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

a very bad decision.
What was Siragusa thinking

Anonymous said...

I think the decision was right on the money. Please explain why you think it is so bad.

Anonymous said...

As long a churches, synagogues and mosques continue to discuss civil matters and present candidates for office in their services, I guess the town can allow religious (or non-religious) prayers in their meetings. The separation of church and state was not meant to prevent either from ever being mentioned in the other, just that the state could not formally declare one religion the "official" religion with more influence than any other.
The real test of this decision will be the variety of religions that are represented. Will it include only those religions that have an official place of worship in Greece, or will it include all religions that re observed by anyone living in the town?

SCATS said...

To 6:57AM ~~ You haven't explained YOUR stance either ;)

To 8:10AM ~~ A generic prayer is one thing. A prayer invoking "The Father ... The Son ... & The Holy Spirit" is quite another, don't you think?

SCATS said...

To 8:10AM ~~ They claim to be inclusive but they haven't done much in the way of making everyone feel welcome. The did allow one Wiccan back after the story about the lawsuit first became news. Since then, I've heard of nothing out of the ordinary happening. Even our churches are a "closed and clubby" group.

Anonymous said...

May we offer "spur of the moment" prayers before and during the meeting? For example "hallelujah" when a vote is approved of. Or an "amen" to confirm the statement of a board member or to show approval. The meetings could pause every so often when a community member feels the urge to express themselves with a dance. Then the meeting could continue. Hey, Siragusa said that all religions were welcome and that is the way certain sects pray.
Now that the supervisor who has been endorsed by the "in jesus name" group for his prayer policy (this is true) feels validated by the judge, will he start to dress the part with robes or liturgical vestments at the meetings and social political events.
That tent in front of the town hall could be the "revival" our area needs. First meetin' this Sunday afternoon. Bring your bibles and your smelling salts in case the spirit overcomes you.

SCATS said...

To 10:24AM ~~ Great minds must think alike! I just added the link to this current BLOG from a previous BLOG post last Fall about Auberger being a "hero" for the injesusname.org group.

What do we say if we are in DISAGREEMENT with the Town Board's decision? "Hell no"?? lol

I'm thinking that people who disagree with the decision of the court should stand and face the rear of the Town Board meeting room during the prayer to be a visual reminder that not everyone is onboard with the closed, clubby & corrupt group that runs our town.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps an easier alternative is to not attend the meetings until after the prayer service, or if you are already there, get up and leave, and return after the prayer.

Just because Supervisor Alzheimer feels a need to have a religious prayer at each meeting does not mean you have to stay or be there to attend it. Your right to leave or not attend is equal to his right to have a prayer.

Anonymous said...

Too bad the Supervisor doesn't perform his job as well as he supervises holding prayer meetings (his incompetence may be the reason for holding prayers)

As it appears he has the right to do this, I would submit we also have the right to get up and leave the room when the prayer is done, or more politely, simply don't enter until after the prayer service. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander...AMEN

SCATS said...

To 10:45AM ~~ It's also my right to face the back of the room, too ;)

Anonymous said...

This all assumes anyone attends the meetings. They don't If more people attended this might make sense

SCATS said...

To 12:21PM ~~ And the reason no one attends the meetings is ... ?

Maybe because the meetings are nothing more than an orchestrated farce on democracy?

Or possibly because you won't learn anything of substance by attending one?

Or then again, maybe it's because they are a closed, clubby & corrupt group who really don't care to include anyone?

I choose ALL OF THE ABOVE !!

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't oppose the prayer if the board had a moral compass, and actually acted in a "christ" like manner. The lies and selfish acts of our town board (past) and its supervisor make the prayer a mute point and IRONIC at best. There is no honor in much of our town government, prayer or not!

Anonymous said...

Does anyone really know how many local, non-political citizens actually attend these meetings? If anyone does, please share the number

If it is only the "good ole boys" club, then this whole issue is basically a "non-issue". They need more than prayers to help them do their jobs effectively

SCATS said...

To 12:53PM ~~ Very true.

To 1:01PM ~~ The count varies depending on the issues that cause people to demand action. Sometimes there are groups of Boy Scouts watching ... and Supervisor Alzheimer caters to them by explaining what a motion is ;)

Anonymous said...

I took a look at a congressional site the offical chaplin of the House I think never invokes the name of Jesus. His prayers could be seen as non-sectarian or only minimally so. Only the guest chaplains (not all of them) use the Jesus phrase (which is clearly meant to have a polticsl content -- to assert we are a christian nation) Actually that seems to refute what Siragusa says in his opinion about there being no differnce betwen sectarian and non-sectariona prayer. THe offical chaplain is quite aware of this distinction.

He also took the words of Auberger's assistants at face value even though Auberger did an alzhemers in his deposion or so I have heard

Anonymous said...

If the plaintiffs in this matter plan to appeal this could eventually become landmark. Funny that the most corrupt town government in the US except for the big easy could be the winner in a case preserving their right to endorse prayer during a public meeting. They may be asleep at the wheel and lie under oath about their memory but they have the right to pray and as a result other towns will too. Weird.
Maybe the libs will let it die here so it goes no further. After all they will lose all the way up to the supreme court since the congress starts with a prayer.

SCATS said...

To 4:25PM ~~ I think most chaplains who have the mixed masses to tend to opt for the more generic prayer. I'm pretty sure that's what Congress gets most of the time, too. I seriously doubt that they invoke the name of Jesus in front of our Jewish senators & reps. I've seen hospital chaplains and chaplains in other venues do similarly ~~ keep it generic. Maybe Supervisor Alzheimer thinks he's God and doesn't care who he offends in HIS temple.

To 5:16PM ~~ I'd love to see an appeal from Greece that makes it to the Supreme Court. I'd help fundraise for it, too :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Scats,

Patients with Alzheimers Disease behave and function as they do because of an incurable,degenerative brain disease over which they have no control.

Mr Auberger is a shady politician who is very much aware of his calculated actions. By referring to him as "Supervisor Alzheimer", you are mocking those who truly have this terrible disease.

I am sure that you can come up with many appropriate and very descriptive terms in which to refer to our fearless leader.

SCATS said...

Dear 4:28PM ~~ I know you think you are "educating me" but you aren't. I have a fairly decent general background in medicine and related things. It's a field of lifelong interest to me. Plus, I know people who suffer from Alzheimer's disease and from dementia. I did not coin the title, but it is funny (my opinion and other's) and it fits the situation perfectly. I think it mocks our memory impaired Supervisor, not the people who suffer the ailment themselves. I plan to continue using it. Thanks for weighing in.

Anonymous said...

Dear Scats,

I was not trying to educate you at all. I was just expressing an opinion. You state at the top of the blog to leave the name calling at the door. I was referring to that point.

As for Mr Auberger... I think that he is as corrupt as can be. I have no love lost for him and he deserves whatever criticism that comes his way.

Thank You.

4:28

SCATS said...

To 4:28/4:48PM ~~ If you weren't trying to educate me, then why write: "Patients with Alzheimers Disease behave and function as they do because of an incurable,degenerative brain disease over which they have no control."

Anonymous said...

Sometimes satire can be a bit cruel.

But necessary.

Auberger deserves the moniker

Anonymous said...

SCATS, way to be hypocritical. Your ok with breaking your own rules as long as it mocks somebody you don't like. Lest somebody be offended by a term you use to mock a republican, you don't really care about the offense. Well done!

SCATS said...

To 9:15PM ~~ For every rule, there are exceptions. This is one of those. Supervisor Alzheimer worked very hard to earn the title. Out of some 30 or so witnesses called during the Rahn trial, he is reported to be THE ONLY ONE with significant recall issues!

As they say, if the name fits ... this one certainly does.

By the way, I don't give a hoot about party affiliations. It's all about backing up words with actions. If John's lips are moving, he's likely fibbing.

SCATS said...

BLOG Administration rejected posting a comment from the MoronsRanting peanut gallery.