Sunday, May 23, 2010




Anonymous said...
To 11:50 Don't try to put words into our mouths.

???"all private business employees who have not lost pay or benefits should voluntarily return some of their money to their companies."??

Nowhere did anyone say that the staff at the schools should return any earned money to the schools. They should get less in their salaries from this point on. That is the recommendation.

Many public employees that are union members are protected and can receive no decrease in pay but let's stick to the schools since that's the focus of this thread. I personally do not recommend removing firemen or the people that fix our bridges)

The district should stop paying their big salaries and stop giving raises. Let them sue and whine in court.

Another strategy is to remove from the program all the non-mandated programs and their staff. Then those that remain would still get big salaries and the others would be unemployed for a time. It is the only way to save money and keep the essentials.

Do we need a list once again of the surprisingly non-mandated programs? (for those of you that already have it memorized by now don't bother reading)

Elementary art, music, band and chorus, lessons, kindergarten,pre-kindergarten, librarians, counselors, psychiatrists. The state requires phys ed time of 135 minutes a week at this level but it can be overseen by the regular teacher as well as music, art, health can. I can hear the grieving now.

There is no mandated need for a librarian at each school just a district librarian and the libraries could be staffed by non-union people. (By the way did you know we in the community are allowed to use the district's schools libraries free of charge?)

Same goes for counselors. There is the mandate for a district counselor administrator and a plan (which we don't have) but no mandate for counselors at each school or any school.

At the secondary level we could look to Odyssey to find out how they survive with so few electives and get quality results. They have only 2 languages to choose from for example.

And there is no state mandate for band and chorus during the school day. It could be offered after school as a club with a stipend director. Same for all the art classes. NY just requires one of either be taken and passed to graduate. Basic art or music history for example. So we could be back to basics at the high school level too and remove the teachers that have those jobs. Tenure does not protect the program but rather it protects the staff member. If a program is eliminated the position is eliminated. The first person to possibly be let go in that position can then bump someone else (if they are qualified to teach in another discipline) that has less tenure. The union will always survive no matter how few members it has. And the union cares nothing about the individual members. Once a position is eliminated that member no longer is in the union and doesn't matter. The union would rather see positions and programs eliminated than see the members have to pay more for benefits or receive lower raises.   5/23/2010 2:24 PM

SCATS ~~ And transportation could also be cut back to state required limits!

On Monday night, bring a sign to the BOE meeting that tells them to:



Anonymous said...

I don;t think this is a good idea at all.
Good librarians are a necessity for schools.

But I think a lot of posters miss the basic point.

Cutting middle class wages is a race to the bottom that will not in the long run solve our economic problems.

Bashing unions will not save our economy or provide the tax relief we require.

george hubbard said...

Q#1: Is GBOE going into executive session Monday to discuss 2010-11 budget?

Q#2: If yes, by what authority?

The handbook SCHOOL LAW, 30th EDITION, states (pg 47), “Executive sessions are permitted only for a limited number of specific purposes. A board may call an executive session only on the following subjects:”

1. Matters that will imperil the public safety...

2. Any matter that may disclose the identity of a law enforcement agent...

3. Information relating to current or future investigation or prosecution of a criminal offense...

4. Discussions involving proposed, pending or current litigation.

5. Collective negotiations...

6. The medical, financial, credit, or employment history of a particular person...

7. The preparation, grading, or administration of exams.

8. The proposed acquisition, sale, or lease of real property...

Q#3: Where does the subject of ‘budget discussion’ fit in the list of 8 permitted subjects above according to NYS open meetings law?

SCATS said...

To 4:10PM ~~ I think librarians are nice to have, but certainly not a necessity, especially at K-5.

To Geo. Hubbard ~~ Perhaps you misunderstood. The Exec. Session is: "to discuss collective bargaining."

I think we may be getting a settled contract out of our "bare bones" contingent budget ;) As I said before, if the budget had passed last week, GTA was promised a new agreement.

Anonymous said...

By all means, let's cut everything we can out of education and pay teachers less. At the same time we'll continue cutting private sector wages and benefits as well, while the fat cats get richer and keep shipping our job overseas.

The short-sightedness of the poster on the front page of this thread is stunning.

SCATS said...

To 4:45PM ~~ What's stunning is that your "kill the messenger" mentality doesn't bother to speak back to any of the ideas posed. Everyone knows that the only "worthy" ideas in GCSD are those that expand union benefits & salaries.

Anonymous said...

To Scats at 4:15
It does not. They cannot go into executive session for that legally and we will see which board member has the courage to protest the secret session.
He or she should protest it when the motion is made before it is seconded and voted on and "object to its consideration" since it violates NY state open meetings section of the "public officers law", but he or she should remain in the board room during the session so he or she can both report what went on in there and report the session to the NY State Committee on open government for an advisory opinion. If they still override his "objection to the consideration" of the motion then it will be voted on and might or might not pass. The dissenting board member should request a roll call vote for the motion to enter executive session and he or she should remain for the then illegal closed portion of the meeting. It is legal for the board member to be there since it is legal for the rest of us to be there too. Just because they are having an illegally closed meeting does not make it against board code of honor for him or her to remain.
Of course the public has the right to be there when the posted meeting is called to order and when they make the motion to enter executive session and observe the debate on whether they should vote to go into executive session.
And the public could refuse to leave if they are closing it for an illegal purpose. But then they might be arrested for trespass since that is how the administration deals with dissent or opposition. Risky. But do you think they will really cart anyone off in handcuffs at one of their meetings again? Cowards that the board are, they will probably start moving into another room to carry on their secret meeting. They are very predictable.
When a board goes into executive session they have to be in a public open posted meeting to start and then someone on the board has to make a motion to enter into executive session for a certain reason or reasons. The public is allowed to be there for that. Should be interesting. When is the meeting supposed to start?

And 4:10, there are many great non-union library personnel that could handle the day to day operation of the libraries. After all they are running the Monroe County libraries in many cases and they are not guaranteed jobs. They might apply.
Programs have to be cut down to the basics and the mandated. Considering cutting programs is not bashing anyone or unions but instead trying to save the basic education that we the people can afford. The only reason librarians were mentioned is because they are not mandated at each school in NY State. About 10 other programs were mentioned as well. Would you recommend any of them instead of the librarians? What's your suggestion ?

SCATS said...

To 5:18PM ~~ I just rechecked Board Docs, the third time now. You must click on the posting for to,orrow's meeting, let it open, then click on "Agenda" to see the details for the meeting. I'm not liking this new BoardDocs set-up. It is confusing.

The Exec. Session is to discuss collective bargaining, according to the agenda. That portion is slated for 5:30PM. The budget discussion is slated for 6:30PM and appears to be open to the public. I understand your explanation for the PROPER WAY for them to call an Exec. Session & I appreciate your detailed outline. They have NOT been following that for several years now. I'd love to see some other folks get involved in holding them accountable for their illegal methods. The agenda for tomorrow actually seems to show that the meeting won't "open" until after their closed door discussion. Of course that is wrong!

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should make sure some people are there to make sure they do not segue directly from the closed "collective bargaining" discussion to the "open" discussion of the budget predicament. So some citizens should arrive at 5:30 and sit just outside the door and wait for them to emerge from the sweat lodge that is their executive session. Then we can hear them discuss the budget. And the board members that care about democracy should make sure that the executive session stays on topic and does not digress to budget.

Anonymous said...

To the visionary at 4:45
What is your solution? Any ideas at all besides bashing others' suggestions?
We await your inspirational wisdom that will help us pay for the education of the children and not ship jobs overseas and keep fat cats penniless as well as paying teachers lots of money. Please back it up with references to what is mandated by New York state.

Anonymous said...

Some people, like 50 would be wonderful!!!!!! What would they do then????

george hubbard said...


1. The GTA Agreement states (pg 43), “...the Association leadership shall be provided with the equivalent of 1.0 FTE (Full-Time Equiv) release time from their teaching duties.

...designated leaders shall be considered employees of the District for all purposes including salary, retirement, seniority, and employee rights...”

Q#1: What does this cost GCSD?

2. Estimated cost for salary, benefits, and substitute staff – probably $100K+ annually. BOE should have/obtain a written estimate for the record.

Q#2: What does the District receive in exchange for ‘release time’?

3. The GTA Agreement doesn’t say. There is no mention of any financial benefit... or educational benefit... or any other benefit to GCSD. And, there appears to be no accountability for time spent or work done.

Q3#: Before approving a new GTA Agreement, should BOE:

A) Remove this ‘release time’ provision from the Agreement, or

B) Insist on accountability for this expenditure... to reassure voters money is spent wisely?

4. NOTE for the record: Neither the current Superintendent nor any member of current BOE has had a hand in negotiating/approving this release time provision in the current GTA Agreement.

Anonymous said...

Breaking unions only hurts non-union workers. Dropping their salaries and benefits will give private sector companies more reasons to further cut jobs, salaries and benefits. It never ceases to amaze me how short-sighted people are. Your company took away your pension, and instead of being angry with them you want everyone to suffer the same fate.

I'm not in a union but I wish I was.

SCATS said...

To 10:51PM ~~ I hear Mott's union could use you ;)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for organizing the protest today SCATS. I think the TV coverage was great! It's hard to be there on the weekdays, so today was the perfect day to stage our anger!

Anonymous said...

Reduce and Revote?

naw. Try this:

"Contentment through Contingency"

Anonymous said...

Reduce what?!? Drop it a million dollars and it is still the highest increase in Monroe County! And you're going to vote 'yes' this time?!?

Great idea sheeple of Greece! Spend $30,000 to vote on something that can be reached by a declaration of contingency.

We're still laughing at you.

SCATS said...

To 8:21AM ~~ You really ought to try reading the BLOG instead of guessing what I wrote. Up near the very top it says: "REDUCE THE BUDGET BELOW THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE CONTINGENCY PLAN"

The maximum allowable contingency plan would be that $1.19 million I keep talking about. I want a complete budget "DO OVER."

Anonymous said...

Scats; if the budget vote is not binding does that mean the vote on board candidates is also not binding?

SCATS said...

To 11:06AM ~~ I don't think so. But then, you can't blame the newly elected for the mess the current BOE made, except for the incumbent.