Sunday, November 22, 2009

Town of Greece Turns Its Back On Braddocks Bay

  
Refuses to help keep channel open using tax dollars (BUT has no problem cutting tax breaks to a sauce maker that raises our taxes!)

"The second-highest numbers of registered boats in the state are here in Monroe County, and without lake access, people can't come here to launch their boats. We are missing out on such an asset ... Here we are, the largest town in Monroe County, with the most shoreline, and people can't even get out on the lake from here." ~~ Craig Bryce

Great Lakes Commission claims recreational uses along the five Great Lakes generate more than $16 billion in annual economic activity in the eight states that border the lakes.

STORY

SCATS ~~ Once again, Greece is literally missing the boat!

44 comments:

brian said...

Auberger's reasoning is lame.

No one buys it.

Don Riley spoke recently at the historical society as an observant boy scout noted I brought this point (and others) up to Auberger at the last meeting.
Riley, among other things, criticized Auberger's neglect of Braddocks Bay and offered though he might have tried to downplay it, a very critical account of the current supervisor's policies and judgment.

The whole BB thing sounds like just another political hit by the Auberger group on someone they judge to be not the right kind of person for Greece. Sound familiar

Anonymous said...

According to the article, town-owned boat launches sit unused because Auberger won't help open the channel. What a perfect example of this man's arrogance used in a way that costs us upkeep on boat launches no one can benefit from! I still can't believe this piece of work got reelected.

SCATS said...

To 12:42PM ~~ Your observation reminds me of how Greece and Uncle Auggie love to get recognition for being a "Tree City" even though the town no longer provides maintenance on the trees they planted! I'll bet there are many such examples, if only we knew ;)

Anonymous said...

Sue the town of Greece for breach of contract:

Part of the state land is leased to the Town of Greece and is used for a marina. There is a need for continual dredging to keep the channel into the marina open. The effects of this dredging, and the boat traffic, on the wetland breeding birds, and their habitats needs to be assessed.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/27709.html

Anonymous said...

Scats, please note that tree don't vote and unless the marina owners are republicans, their support is beyond "purchase". In response to the idea that we run the town like a business, it IS run like a business. Only the business is how to get re-elected by carefully spending tax money to curry favor.
We tried to get a different view elected and failed. We'll need to try harder next time...

Anonymous said...

From what I have been told Bradocks Bay is a Corp. and leased this from the Town of Greece for $1 per year. That is a gift in itself! Why would the taxpayer's in Greece want to fund the dredging. If there is Federal money for this then that is different and possible the Town could assist this adventure for a Corporation - other than that I see no reason why the taxpayers would contribute to a private individual who is incorpated.

SCATS said...

To 5:47PM ~~ Something is lacking/misinformed/confused about your "understanding." Braddock's Bay is a protected wetland area and a park, not a corporation.

By the way, where do you think federal funding comes from, if not from "the taxpayers?"

Anonymous said...

Scats, the federal government ran out of taxpayer money long, LONG ago. They are no running on paper that is printed in the mint basement 24/7 with no backing whatsoever.
So maybe 5:47 is correct; federal money IS free.

SCATS said...

To 6:56PM ~~ The paper they use comes from China ... ?

Anonymous said...

Sorry - did not mean to confuse the issue regarding a protected wet land - I meant the marina itself is a Corporation - leased for $1 per year from the Town of Greece - if you do not believe it foil the Town and see for yourself the lease - the dredging benefits the marina - that is what I meant!
Why would tax payers help a private Corporation?

SCATS said...

To 8:53PM ~~ You do realize the Town turned this operation over willingly, right?

The dredging benefits the community at least as much as busing seniors to Town Hall for Auberger's Summer concerts do ... Or as much as serving catered lunches under the big tent to various unnecessary groups (such as Citizen Police Academy attendees) ... or holding Citizen Police Academy at all. Of course, I realize the other activities are politically inspired, intended to curry favor for Uncle Auggie's cronies who might contribute campaign $$s or at least pull the lever by his name, while taking care of Braddock's in a responsible manner would only be an example of "doing the right thing."

Anonymous said...

I really hate to introduce reality into this brilliant Democrat lovefest with the Bay, but I must.

Both the DEC and Corps of Engineers have stated dredging the Bay at this point is a waste of money & effort, the story is real easy to find using Google.

Lets also discuss cost, dredging requires permitting and disposal of spoils, both rather expensive.

Can we also factor the cost of fuel, both gasoline and Diesel into boating activity. $4.00+ a gallon gas isn't very helpful to the boating business. That was real obvious to anyone driving past Bryce Marine the last couple years where damn few boats were for sale.

Lets not even look at the contract requiring the marina operator to perform the dredging, after all the Town has unlimited funds, right.

SCATS said...

To 1:28AM ~~ Democrat lovefest? LOL!! You really need to put down your jigger.

As I stated before, let's get rid of EVERYTHING we don't absolutely need. That includes that big white tent that Uncle Auggie uses to press the fresh of the elderly. Heck, let's eliminate crossing guards. It's the parent's job to get their chickadees to school safely if they have to walk. No more letting non-profits use the rooms at 1 Vince Tofany Blvd. for free! Afterall, someone is paying for the utilities and to clean up their messes. The list can go on and on ...

By the way, better call up Aunt Maggie and tell her not to waste your tax dollars on a DOG PARK ;) Word is that she plans to build more!

Anonymous said...

"Both the DEC and Corps of Engineers have stated dredging the Bay at this point is a waste of money & effort"

For once and all, let's find out for sure. The documentation records this as part of the lease with the State of New York. Let's see what AG Cuomo thinks about this. At least this is one attorney who the public doesn't have to pay to get the justice they deserve.

Hate to end this GOP lovefest, but it's down right pornographic here in Greece.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, John for not taxing me so rich people can enjoy their boats.

SCATS said...

To 8:59AM ~~ You think the only people who own boats are "rich" people? Gee, I bet you think that wealthy people go camping too.

Anonymous said...

Let's get some facts straight. In the mid 90's the State turned stewardship of Braddock Bay over to the Town of Greece. Previous Supervisors, Riley and Boily recognized the fact that stewardship of that "jewel of Greece" would require a commitment. They did so by seeking grants to buy a dredge. They signed a leasing agreement with marina operators which had a yearly rental fee, plus a percentage of the marina's gross receipts.

Auberger tore up that agreement, sold the dredge bought with federal money and put it in the new senior complex. Auberger saw no political capital in Braddock Bay boaters. However, seniors vote. That's the story. The marina operator has to pay a monthly rent to Greece, plus a percentage of his profits, which are practically nil at this point. The Town could be making money if this oepration were profitable. There is no $l.00 lease for anyone involved.

Anonymous said...

How much does a dredge cost anyways?

Anonymous said...

If it's such a great money maker then why aren't private investors lining up to take advantage of such a great opportunity? Could it be because they know this simply isn't true?

PS - now that the campaign is over SCATS why haven't you taken off the comment moderation and open this blog back up to people?

Anonymous said...

Thanks, John for not taxing me so rich people can enjoy their boats.

11/23/2009 8:59 AM

Spoken like a true moron! Yeah John, don't tax him for dredging, but tax him up the as* for settling lawsuits due to you inbred negligence. Perhaps the writer would allow us to use his maw to clear the channel. Stupid is as stupid does. At least we can identify that he is in a severly small majority that will continue to downsize over the next couple of years.

Anonymous said...

Are there other towns or villages or cities that have a similar agreement with the state concerning a waterway?

SCATS said...

To 4:20PM ~~ That's a good question. If so, the liklihood it would be similar to this situation seems somewhat remote.

Anonymous said...

As I recall, Joe Moscato held a press conference on Braddock Bay in October. Both he and Maloney expressed concerns about boating, safety and the environmental impact of not dredging the channel

Too bad no one listened and the local Democrats blew the election. Had they been elected, this discussion would be moot as, with Auberger and his flunkies gone, dredging would begin this spring if not sooner.

If done right, it would save the Bay. I have lived in that area for many years. Without intervention, we will lose the bay as it is about to become a toxic mud marsh. Depths used to be about 15', the depth now is at 4'.

Without a channel to the lake, the bay bottom cannot recycle and all the toxic runoff from lawns, etc. cannot recycle into the lake and will just lie there.

It's not just about boaters, its about saving a beautiful body of water, something very rare around here and Greece is lucky enough to have it, the very least we could do is to try and save it for future generations.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone here think that the town of Greece leadership (oxymoron) should be trusted with the stewardship of a natural resource?

Anonymous said...

Scats - Why not end this issue and foil the Town and get the lease/agreement and post it on your site.

SCATS said...

To 10:12PM ~~ At the moment, I'm suffering in car repair hell while staring down the barrel of the holidays. No can do at this point in time, sorry :(

If someone else can/does and provides the documents via email, I'll gladly post them.

Anonymous said...

Hey what the hell, it's only tax money!
For the newcomers to Town, when Don Riley scored Braddocks Bay from the State he was thrilled to learn the Town wound up with a huge hunk of land.
Guess what, the land also included a half built golf course the State had begun and run out of money to finish. Town taxpayers should fund finishing up that golf field so people can chase their balls around. Maybe Maggie can chip in too.

I can well recall the meeting in the school auditorium on Long Pond when Rogierabbit's Deputy Supervisor who went off to jail was trying to figure out where all the topsoil from the golf course went to.

Anonymous said...

So SCATS, Maloney, Moscato and the fake fiscal conservatives here think it's just find to spend millions of our money so some boaters can set sail from the bay?

No one supporting this local fast ferry idea is answering the posed question: if it's such a great idea and anyone involved will make a lot of money off of it as is claimed, then why aren't private investers lining up and pouring money into the project?

Can anyone answer that or is it true that the viability of the project isn't real?

We should thank our lucky charms Dan Maloney and Joe Moscato were't elected.

thank you, thank you, thank you thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

SCATS said...

To 2PM ~~ I don't believe I saw anyone claiming a "get rich quick" scheme. And it must be viable because it was done before ;)

Anonymous said...

I don't think dredging the harbor can in any way be c0omapred to a fast ferry scheme. That's just an attempt to distract. These arguments just seem like Republican rhetorical tricks and very crude ones at that. Not worthy of even a college graduate.

It's like comparing apples sand oranges or Auberger to an honest politician

Clearly there are many types of consideration at work in Braddocks. Ecological recreational economic etc.

It is such a wonderful resource being laid to waste by a short sighted mad man and his ship of fools.

Anonymous said...

Are you kidding? It absolutely is comparable to a fast ferry scheme! How much does a dredge cost? $200? $500? Um, no. Who is going to pay for it? Who is going to pay to maintain it? Why does it require government subsidy to benefit just a few people? If it's so imperative, why can't Louise Slaughter bring back a few million in stimulus funds for it then? It's in her district. The paper announced a not for profit got $8 million in federal stimulus funds today. Slaughter can't get a few mil for this? Why? Anyone here ask her? I'm guessing not.

Directing your anger at anyone other than Slaughter for not funding this sounds like typical democrat campaign rhetoric. The very same we heard from Dan Maloney.

If you are truly serious about wanting it done, go to the right person and level of government. Anything else is just more campaign speeches.

SCATS said...

To 3:53PM ~~ You're absolutely right. If we want something done and done properly, Auberger is certainly NOT the "go to" person :)

Speaking of anger, have you been skipping your therapy sessions lately? You're "hearing Democrats" where there are none ;)

Anonymous said...

Why not Chris Lee?

Anonymous said...

because its slaughter;s district. not many people know that because she never sets foot here. she doesnt really give a damn about our town and makes it pretty obvious.

Anonymous said...

When last dredged in 90±, the sandbar returned in less than 6 months.

The operator, sold the sand screw dredge, according to their website, and is holding the money in reserve to buy another machine if and when a new opening to the lake is approved.

Corps of engineers- Jun 10, 2008 ... dredging of shallow-water such as Olcott + Braddocks Bay- Corps has no funding for such projects.

No dredging permit is in force at this time.
No spoils disposal plan exists, and the bird people oppose depositing spoils in the Bay for manmade islands.

Dr Knauf (Brockport State) has studied the result of the last dredging and states in his report that new dredging without moving the entrance is a fool's errand.

Other than that, everybody who wants to help should assemble Saturday morning at the marina parking lot. Please bring your own shovel & pail. Joe Moscato and Dan will serve pancakes in the shelter and direct dredging.

SCATS said...

To 2:50AM ~~ Sandbars tend to come in with big storms, winds, waves ... If I were you, I wouldn't plan on eating pancakes. To eat, one must shovel first! You're obviously an expert on it, so we're counting on seeing you there! :)

Anonymous said...

SCATS, thanks for allowing comments that explain what is really going on with this issue. Unfortunately, so much misinformation is spread around by folks who don't really know the history. I agree with those that say if dredging would truly result in a windfall for a private marina operation and boat owners would be the ones to benefit, then private investment and boat owners should fund it.

SCATS said...

To 9:47AM ~~ There is a HUGE difference between getting "a windfall" and turning a buck! It appears that dredging the bay isn't rocket science, unless you oppose it. I think it's a shame that we've ignored our waterfront and its potential. It can be dredged in an "environmentally acceptable" way. It was done before. It didn't break the bank. It can be done again. But I do realize I'm not dealing with a guy who possesses any vision for the future of Greece, unless it is in brick & mortar and bears his name. Such a shame :(

Anonymous said...

"dredging the bay isn't rocket science, unless you oppose it. I think it's a shame that we've ignored our waterfront and its potential. It can be dredged in an "environmentally acceptable" way. It was done before."

From your keyboard to the ears of God SCATS.
1990± ain't 2009.
Rules have changed tremendously.
Corps of Engineers offers no support.
Permitting for both dredging & spoils deposit needs to be done!
Lake Ontario is an international waterway, additional rules apply.
Where will the spoils go? They are "contaminated" under 2009 rules.
Who will pay for the engineering studies to begin the permitting process? How long will permitting take?

IF dredging is done as it was in the past, how long will the channel remain open?
What is the viability of the project?

Maybe we can get Crista and GCSD to do the work.

SCATS said...

To 1:38PM ~~ I hear APAC has some seats with no view. Put the spoils there. No one will notice with all the other odors emanating from that botched project.

Anonymous said...

To 1:38 -
You make some valid arguments, but Lake Ontario contains NO "international waters."

If traveling by boat, you're in either the U.S. or Canada.

Anonymous said...

I'm having a tough time getting my brain around the notion that some people are so opposed to this simple project. Methinks there must be much more someone isn't saying here. No one hates boaters THIS much!

Anonymous said...

3:57 - it's politics plain and simple. It has almost nothing to do with boaters. It has a lot to do with vendettas against certain Dems who dared to try to unseat the Auberger's empire.

Anonymous said...

"You make some valid arguments, but Lake Ontario contains NO "international waters."

If traveling by boat, you're in either the U.S. or Canada."

You my friend need to do a bit more looking into Maratime Law!

Jurisdiction over a vessel floating on Lake Ontario may be held by either the US or Canada, BUT the level of water in the Lake is controlled by a Comission of the 2 Nations with Canada having a voting superiority to prevent flooding at Montreal.

Prior to the Seaway, the water level was a lot lower most of the year, and the sandbar across the Bay wasn't a problem.

The actual dredging itself is a very simple project. Getting to the point of dropping a suction head or a SandScrew into the water is a lengthy, expensive & complex problem.
The process of permitting has to work almost backwards, with the first step being spoils disposal. When the opening was dredged in the 90s, spoils were redeposited onshore as well as into the Lake. That option no longer exists under existing rules. The later proposal to deposit spoils in the Bay as artificial islands has also run into considerable opposition from the migratory bird folks. At this point in time, the cheapest spoils disposal may well be loading the spoils onto HazMat legal dump trucks and hauling it to Mill Seat Landfill, an off the top of my head cost on that phase alone would run above $2million.

Lets ignore the disposal of spoils for the sake of the discussion. Permitting to begin dredging with engineering and litigation from the environmental groups will easily cost another $1.5 million. Permitting will also consume at least 3 years. That cost will occurr even if the Permit is denied. Does that look like a good investment?

Now, let's suppose the Dan Baloney Moscito Miracle had occurred and a Magic Wand had dropped a permit to dredge at the door of Town Hall, allowing the Marina operator to begin dredging. Lets throw in the dredging operator being allowed to pump the spoils ashore and deposit them on a pile to be used as Ice Controll sand by the DPW. (Hey I believe in Santa too)
How long do yo think it would have taken for the neighbors of that pile to start screaming their neighborhood had been poluted?

Better yet, lets speculate the Baloney group accomplished the dredging, at a cost to taxpayers of only a $million. How long would it be until the sandbar reappeared in the same place?

It has nothing to do with hating boaters, Mother Nature put the sandbar there because man screwed with her plan, and Mother Nature always wins.