Saturday, September 12, 2009

Teacher vs. Cop ... Student vs Citizen ...

 
Scenario #1 ~ A rowdy student in the hallway at a Greece high school is approached by a teacher. The teacher tells the student to lower his voice and get moving towards his next class. The student responds by "flipping the bird"  and shouting profanities interlaced with verbiage about his "right" to use his time between classes as he sees fit.

Scenario #2 ~ A car thats showing some erratic movement through traffic catches the attention of a Greece police officer. The cop puts on lights and sirens and pulls the driver over. As the cop approaches the driver, the driver flips him the bird and unleashes a tirade of profanity along with his discontent over the recent bad news headlines Greece cops have been making.

It's my understanding that in Scenario #1, the rowdy student may suffer little or no consequences for his actions. If he is sent to see the principal, it is quite likely he will be returned to class within an hour or so. Teacher complaints about the lack of support by administration in such situations are frequently heard. The student often learns he can get away with disrespecting authority.

In Scenario #2, we have a similar incident in the news that's alleged to have resulted in the citizen being maced, tasered 4 times, beaten, ridiculed and finally arrested. The citizen responds with a lawsuit against the Town of Greece, GPD and TEN unnamed officers. The citizen contends his disrespect for authority is his "right" to freedom of speech and should not be connected with the use of brute force to stop him.

SCATS ~~ Do the resource officers in our schools ever intervene in Scenario #1 situations? Would they taser a student in that situation?  Should they?
 

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Interesting analogy SCATS. The cops would never survive as a Greece high school teacher.

Anonymous said...

maybe lax discipline in scenario one is one reason why a senario 2 can happen. breeding cultures with a sense of entitlement and no consequences.

Anonymous said...

Discipline is okay but tasering is very dangerous.
It should only be used as a last resort

SCATS said...

To 3:44PM ~~ You may have a point!

To 3:50PM ~~ I tend to agree.

To 4:03PM ~~ Tasing is NOT a "last resort" to Greece police. It is their next measure after a verbal order is ignored. Compare that to the city PD where tasing is the last measure before employing deadly force. That's why you may have read that a number of youths were tased in mall incidents last fall and winter.

Diane said...

The 47 yr. old man should know better than to incite....he sounds like what the "grown-up" version of the kid would be like if his show of disrespect goes unchecked.

The kid is still a minor and no doubt following the examples the "adults" in our society seem to be giving....sad.


...now...what's the FEMALE version of these scenarios?? I'm sure they'd behave much better ;D.

Anonymous said...

But at the mall it is taser first and ask questions later.

Anonymous said...

The student should be written up and suspended from school. The teacher should notify the principal and the principal should call the student to the office. If the student doesn't comply with the direction of the principal, he should be expelled from school. Do you want a kid like that sitting next to your son or daughter? They test authority first and then their actions become worse and dangerous. No one needs to taser the kid, they just need to kick him out.

Anonymous said...

scats my point exactly.
Tasering should not be used for simple control. People have died from tasering

Diane said...

As none of you were there to see the confrontation and how "out of control" this guy was..it's not really your call.

Again, I ask..I wonder if cameras captured sound and video.

Anonymous said...

SCATS didnt your own quoting of a report a few reports say that the person in scenario 2 had a concealed weapon. I don't think the student was packing heat

SCATS said...

To 5:55PM ~~When Belasco was tased, maced, etc. at the end of May, they found a "club" in his vehicle. When he was arrested in January, he was carrying a gun. We don't know if he was carrying that weapon legally or not.

Diane said...

Police would've run a check on him to know what any "priors" were and prepared themselves accordingly...I bet he's no saint. Acting out like that at his age tells me all I need to know. I bet it doesn't go in his favor...a person's character is what the court is going to look at.

Anonymous said...

Diane what about freedom of speech? Hypocrite! No "salutation" or expression tasing is over the top.

Anonymous said...

"a person's character is what the court is going to look at."

WRONG! He wants a trial. The jury will look at facts.

Anonymous said...

Edit to 7:53 should read "expression is a violation worth of tasing it was over the top."

Me said...

Come on 8:02 you shoudl know ;) that character counts and if you are anonymous, or disagree you have none.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if the SRO's carry tasers? Any other weapons? Curious minds wanna know.

Anonymous said...

They haven't shared the complaint like others have but it appears it is another civil rights case. We are looking like a police state that curtails people's civil rights and gives favoritism in hiring to addicts and allows sexual harassment of women by the police officers. Add to that police brutality.
This brutality happened in May before the xxxt hit the fan and when our police still thought they were untouchable. I'll bet they wouldn't be so ready to brutalize and humiliate now. Let's hope this behavior stops.
BTW I am also scared of the person suing the police with his illegal firearms that are under the federal investigation from the earlier stop. He sounds like he acts impulsively and without regard for his or anyone else's safety. But still that is no reason for police to torture a prisoner or suspect. I have no respect or trust for either party in this suit. .

Anonymous said...

10:19- you forgot to mention favoritism via political ties and campaign donations.

Diane said...

7:53 and 8:02...let that guy throw the finger at the Judge and curse at him and see how far "freedom of speech" and "bad character" will get him! ;)

There's a time & a place for everything..and one must choose one's words and actions wisely.

If he didn't agree with the cops stopping him or issuing him tickets, he could take that up in court without all his "drama" that complicated the situation..the guy was grandstanding.

The lawyer could care less..she gets paid either way..win or lose.

Anonymous said...

But the judge won't fly from the bench and start beating the guy and tasering him and then laugh. There is a law that says there is a certain "order in the court" that if it is violated the person is held in contempt and there is a penal code remedy for that. There is nothing in our penal code that says if we are simply disrespectful of a police officer that we are going to be beaten.
And the lawyer makes nothing if the case is not won for her client. This is a suit for damages and she would receive whatever her percentage is from the settlement or judgement. Could be 30 or 40 per cent. You know that!
There are lawyers that do pro bono work and she may be taking this case that way we don't know. Criminal lawyers are paid directly from the client. Also lawyers that are trying to keep Walmart out of Greece are paid directly by the client.
And why do you think that a person cares less about a cause they are working for if they are paid? Don't you get paid when you do your job or are you independently wealthy and only do philanthropic work.

Anonymous said...

The students in our schools get away with anything they want to for one simple reason.They will tell their parents and then all hell breaks out.The parents come to school or call central office and go nuts.Their little darlings are being picked on, or their kid would never do that, we asked him and he said the teacher made it up to get them in trouble.There is a lack of good parenting in this world, and that is why people act the way they do.

SCATS said...

To 10:35AM ~~ When I hear the argument you used about the parents coming in and getting their angel out of trouble, it makes me think the teachers in Greece must have some HUGE credibility issues for administration to take the student's side ... or other evidence in the favor of the student.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a teacher however I have heard parents talk about how all they have to do is raise hell at central office or the school and the district backs right down.They do not want the bad press,as if they don't get enough of that by themselves with all the other decisions made by the administration and the BOE.

SCATS said...

To 11:41AM ~~ If administration backs down out of fear of "bad press" then they are
D-Y-S-F-U-N-C-T-I-O-N-A-L !!

GTA should take the matter up with administration, in that case.

Anonymous said...

I agree 100%. But,this is the sad state of affairs in our schools today.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone heard a concern from gta about student conduct?
I think some people are making things up.
I have no reason to believe student conduct is a problem in Greece.
If student conduct was having an effect on results the gta would step up right?
The dress code is no problem because i have not heard the principals speak of it.
There are no cell phones used in our schools because the board has a policy against them right?

Anonymous said...

"It is their next measure after a verbal order is ignored."

That is a lie SCATS and you know it.

"Compare that to the city PD where tasing is the last measure before employing deadly force."

How well are the police tactics working in the city these days?

SCATS said...

To 10:24PM ~~ That is NOT a lie. It's what a now "ex" GPD Sgt. and another officer and a Lt. instilled in their police academy classes run for citizens under Rahn's tutelage. If you want to tell me that things have changed because of Loszynski's visit, that's another story.